Cisgender

Avenged7Fold said:
The restriction to bathrooms are not their to make you feel comfortable with your identity when you need a poo but rather to make others (as it is a public/work bathroom!) feel comfortable when they need to go.
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Actually, you're right in that it's about comfort and feeling safe. After all, males and females don't have any radically different needs when it comes to changing clothes, etc. But that's the point. It's not about who you can and can't sleep with between consenting adults or anything like that. It's about comfort. And if someone that others consider a male starts using female facilities it's going to make a lot of people uncomfortable. So unfortunately, that's just tough on the person who thinks they're a woman, even if they themself are more comfortable there. You don't get given the right to use whichever facilities you choose.

Avenged7Fold said:
It is nothing to do with an individuals sexuality or personal identity, as no one in that bathroom is going to actually know it.
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Two things. Firstly, that is very far from always true - are you saying your argument changes if we can tell someone is actually male or find out about it? Secondly, there are many things in life that do not become okay just because you didn't find out about it. I'm sure you recognize that so you can't apply it as a first principle to make something not wrong.

Avenged7Fold said:
since the purpose of those bathrooms is not social, not for safety
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It can and often is both. I've frequently gone to the bathroom in a club or bar to talk with my friends. But I said it's important that people feel comfortable and safe in a bathroom. I stand by that.
 
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No1newts said:
I have always wondered about this one, WE MUST MAKE SURE WE ARE DIFFERENT SO WE CAN ALL BE EQUAL!!!!
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That's effectively the American vs. the European approach to racism. In Europe it's usually (at least historically) tackled by stamping down on any idea that races should be handled differently. In France, it's not uncommon to be looked down on for even referring to race as a real thing.

In America, it's all about "recognizing" different races and making sure everybody feels proud of their race.

Except for a few special and complex cases, I despise the American approach. It doesn't eliminate racism, it institutionalizes it. And we in the UK get a lot of it washing over here.
 
h4rm0ny said:
It can and often is both. I've frequently gone to the bathroom in a club or bar to talk with my friends. But I said it's important that people feel comfortable and safe in a bathroom. I stand by that.
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Thats your purpose for those bathrooms but the designed purpose of split gender bathrooms are to separate genders for comfort of bathroom goers, not so blokes can talk to blokes and women just to women nor is it as an escape from a creepy person, though you might use it that way.

The purpose is to offer a place to go to the bathroom in comfort. The reason for gender exclusive bathrooms is for the comfort of others, it is a public bathroom and is not catered to any one individual, if it makes people feel uncomfortable to be in the male bathroom because they identify as a female despite being male, then that is just unfortunate but the nature of publicly shared places is that it has to be catered for the majority as the other option is to cater it to the minority.

The use of public facilities should be used with other people in mind not selfishly, as that is really the only way shared facilities work.
 
h4rm0ny said:
Okay, leaving baiting twist3d0n3 over his homophobia (and inferior l33t spelling to my own), because he doesn't seem to understand it and just falls back on "you criticized me, you must be all upset wah wah" responses, here's something a bit more on topic and relevant:

Paypal has just cancelled a major business centre in North Carolina because (they say), NC has introduced anti-LGBT legislation:

https://www.paypal.com/stories/us/paypal-withdraws-plan-for-charlotte-expansion

I don't know the full details of the legislation but the headline part was that it states that people should use the bathrooms of their actual birth sex, not what they choose to identify as or what they've been surgically realigned as.

I can see the case for post-op transsexuals to use their destination sex bathroom, but personally, I don't like it and I certainly wouldn't want any pre-op or other person using the wrong bathroom. I especially wouldn't like men coming into the women's changing rooms at the gym or similar. And the only reason the NC state actually made a ruling on this at all is because some lower level body made a ruling that people had free choice to choose which facilities they used.
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the most interesting thing about this issue is that when the governments of several states tried to push through these laws it was big business that fought back hardest, including AMC, dysney, wallmart, apple, google and others.


given we're allways seeing films about oppressive companies taking over the world its funny that its companies fighting oppression from the government.
 
Avenged7Fold said:
Thats your purpose for those bathrooms but the designed purpose of split gender bathrooms are to separate genders for comfort of bathroom goers, not so blokes can talk to blokes and women just to women nor is it as an escape from a creepy person, though you might use it that way.

The purpose is to offer a place to go to the bathroom in comfort. The reason for gender exclusive bathrooms is for the comfort of others, it is a public bathroom and is not catered to any one individual, if it makes people feel uncomfortable to be in the male bathroom because they identify as a female despite being male, then that is just unfortunate but the nature of publicly shared places is that it has to be catered for the majority as the other option is to cater it to the minority.

The use of public facilities should be used with other people in mind not selfishly, as that is really the only way shared facilities work.
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interestingly the main point raised was "safety".

that a random bloke could go "oh im a woman" and walk into the women's bathroom and make them feel unsafe/attack them.

yet a passable trans woman using the male bathroom is going to be far more at risk dont you think.
 
Tefal said:
interestingly the main point raised was "safety".

that a random bloke could go "oh I'm a woman" and walk into the women's bathroom and make them feel unsafe/attack them.

yet a passable trans woman using the male bathroom is going to be far more at risk dont you think.
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I have seen some who probably perceived themselves to be very much more than passable they simply looked like unkempt males dressed up for a laugh and a few beers.

It's not being prejudicial to say that some transsexuals really do look this way, the question is how could anyone differentiate between a bad transexual and a guy trying it on for a laugh or even sinister reasons.
 
h4rm0ny said:
That's effectively the American vs. the European approach to racism. In Europe it's usually (at least historically) tackled by stamping down on any idea that races should be handled differently. In France, it's not uncommon to be looked down on for even referring to race as a real thing.

In America, it's all about "recognizing" different races and making sure everybody feels proud of their race.

Except for a few special and complex cases, I despise the American approach. It doesn't eliminate racism, it institutionalizes it. And we in the UK get a lot of it washing over here.
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I find it all sadly depressing.

I have black/white/Asian/African/Caribbean/middle eastern friends who are straight/gay/lesbian I have never cared I judge the person on the person. I have always found it completely baffling that people judge others on skin/ethnicity/sexual orientation I just cannot wrap my head around it which is why I sometimes struggle with this topic as the concept of pigeon holing someone so easily is strange.
 
We should just have a third toilet honestly (Gender neutral only works in very niche enviroments, so dont even), call it "everything inbetween" on the door.
 
People are people, who they sleep with, have relationships with, what they have between their legs, on their chests, between their ears, I have no issue with so long as none of what they do is harmful to others and whoever they do it with is a consenting adult.

Some of these individuals/groups just want to stand out, I always presumed they would want to blend in, being just another human member of society.
 
StriderX said:
We should just have a third toilet honestly (Gender neutral only works in very niche enviroments, so dont even), call it "everything inbetween" on the door.
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Just have 2 sets of toilets as we already do, no men or women's toilets though, rename them to 'Penis' and 'Vagina', so you use whichever toilet corresponds to the current contents of your underwear, problem solved, no cries of prejudice.
 
Hitman_Leon said:
Just have 2 sets of toilets as we already do, no men or women's toilets though, rename them to 'Penis' and 'Vagina', so you use whichever toilet corresponds to the current contents of your underwear, problem solved, no cries of prejudice.
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But what about the very passable woman or man who still hasnt had the op being in the "right" toilet.

A big muscled dude with a beard might make the women a little uncomfoetable dont you think, regardless of if he has a vagaina stashed in his jeans
 
Tefal said:
But what about the very passable woman or man who still hasnt had the op being in the "right" toilet.

A big muscled dude with a beard might make the women a little uncomfoetable dont you think, regardless of if he has a vagaina stashed in his jeans
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The only other way around this would be to have unisex staffed toilets with fully enclosed stalls, otherwise to please all the 'groups' without cries of prejudice it would probably take 4 or 5 differently labeled toilets and the costs would be astronomical.
 
People aren't cats, thinking otherwise is clearly a deficiency with enough clout to be recommended for a bit of alone time to contemplate that they arent a cat...
 
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