Citizenship help

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 21:52

Right, I'll explain the situation first.

My mother is German and I hold a German passport, however, anyone who has met me would find it difficult to find anything that makes that obvious. I have lived here since birth and culturally, I am as British as any other person that holds a British passport.

I know that when I was 16 or so, I did put in an application for a British passport and this was declined by the UKPA. The exact reasons for this I'm not clear on, but I assumed it was because there was no father named on my birth certificate, I couldn't prove a British parent. I also was under the assumption that I had no automatic entitlement to British citizenship as I was born after 1983 when the law changed.

I was looking at getting naturalised so I could apply for certain jobs that require British citzenship and came across this:

If you were born in the UK on or after 1 January 1983 but before 2 October 2000, you are a British citizen if, at the time of your birth, either of your parents was an EEA citizen who was exercising Treaty rights under European Community (EC) law. This is because your parent's stay is regarded as having been free of a time limit under immigration laws.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/b...ishcitizenship/borninukorqualifyingterritory/

I was born in the UK in 1987 and my mum is an EU citizen, so despite what I've previously thought, am I a British Citizen?

I know that this is a complicated matter, does anyone know of organisations that can help advise me other than the CAB (who I will approach soon)?

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 21:56

[FnG]magnolia;23749515 said:
SEND THEM BACK!

e : can't you speak to the people your link is from?

You tell me. As far as I am aware, the UKBA won't give advice on this and will direct me to a solicitor, which I obviously want to avoid paying for.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:07

Nix said:
Isn't there something that applies being as you've lived here so long? I was under the impression there was.

No, not as far as I can see.

Rotty said:
if you reapply would they not give you a reason if it was refused ?

and yes, having met you I never noticed that you were anything other than British (well apart from the lederhosen and sausage breath )

Well we all like a bit of sausage.

Skeeter said:
"Do I look Scottish?!"

I hate you.

I think the issue I will face is not the requirements, but proving them. From the IPS (UKPA)

Born or adopted in the UK
Before 1 January 1983

You must send your birth or adoption certificate.

On or after 1 January 1983

You must send your birth or adoption certificate and either:

your mother’s or father’s UK birth certificate, Home Office certificate of registration/naturalisation, a British passport belonging to one of your parents that was valid when you were born or a British passport number for either parent (which you must put in section 4 of the application form)

evidence of one of your parents’ immigration status in the UK at the time of your birth (eg a foreign passport belonging to one of your parents that was valid when you were born)

I can't prove my mother's immigration status at my birth and I have no idea how I would.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:14

mo9204 said:
i tough after 5 years in the UK your Eligible, let alone born here. your living here with your German passport, which is EU, and EU Citizen can life here.
you can change to dual Citizen, is your father British?

is your birth certificate British? then i don't see why not

I have a British birth certificate, but there is no father listed. I would like to be a dual national and hold both passports, but I don't know if I am already a British citizen and how I go about proving that.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:16

Horse Pop said:
This stuff is complicated and costs money to get wrong (actually, does it cost money to apply for you? It does for the missus).

There's a reason lawyers can charge money for this.

Nonetheless I'd seek proper advice.

UKBA as you say, will not help you.

Any suggestion of who can help me, before I start spending money on legal advice? Obviously I don't want to spend hundreds of pounds on advice that I can avoid paying. So any suggestions other than CAB?

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:21

shine said:
The key point in the legislation is the immigration status of your parents, in your case your mother as no father is listed. You need to ask your motor what her legal status was at the time of your birth - were she on a visa or had she been granted Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR) which is permanent residence.

If she had permanent residence at the time of your birth then you should be able to claim British citizenship but you'll need to provide her documentation to prove this, if she were only on a visa then no, you can't claim British citizenship.

In British law, anyone born after January 1983 can only British citizenship if their parent(s) are British or considered to be permanently settled (had ILR). If the parents can't fulfil these criteria then the child must take the nationality of the parents.

Here's another spanner for the works: I'm not in contact with my mother and haven't been for a long time. I have no other documentation other than my birth certificate and her German marriage certificate. As she was an EU citizen, wouldn't she automatically have ILR? She did live here from a bit before my birth until 2003 though, that says to me that she was settled.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:30

That would cost me close to £1000 in fees and I'd have to pass that stupid citizen test.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 22:47

semi-pro waster said:
Would you not be able to claim permanent residency via the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006? You're an EEA national (German passport holder) and you've been resident within the UK for the past 5+ years exercising treaty rights (student and employment).

Definitely take proper advice on it, immigration law is something I know little about but I suspect that might be the easiest option for you to prove.

I'll take a look at that, thanks mate

Edit: not useful unfortunately as I'm not after residence status, I'm after full blown citizenship.

shine said:
Was your father British? If so, then that is enough to pass on citizenship but you'll need to prove your father is a British citizen and that he is your father as he is not listed on your Birth certificate.

That's a complete no go unfortunately.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 23:47

Like I said, I considered naturalisation which I know I'm entitled to apply for but the fees are best part of £1000 and it'll take 6 months.

Burnsy2023 · 12 Feb 2013 at 23:57

Both the UK and Germany allow dual nationality. It's not an issue.

As for the UK Passport Agency, they're a law unto themselves.

Burnsy2023 · 13 Feb 2013 at 22:24

Nightglow said:
Look for immigration lawyers, most do citzenship as well, some offer 30-60 minutes free advice.
British Citizenship and Nationality is a nightmare, had a friend some years ago in a similar situation, took ages to sort.

Any in particular I should look at?

Burnsy2023 · 14 Feb 2013 at 11:27

Scougar said:
OMG!!!

Tracking down your father's name would be a good start, and is the clearest option.

Were you born in the UK? (sorry if I missed that)

Tracking down my father isn't an option and yes I was born in the UK.

spacedskunk said:
You're following rules to apply for British citizenship as a child, you're no longer a child and them rules don't apply. Annoyingly reading this document, and following the chart on page 11, you would have been entitled to register as a British citizen before you turned 18 by the living here for 10 years rule. Everything you're following with the parents rule etc is void, and that's simply because you're no longer defined as a child and the reason the passport may have been declined was because you had no certificate of UK registration or naturalisation.

Now as an adult the situation is a whole lot more difficult, if you look at the document on the bottom page you'll see a chart which leads to only one thing...that being applying for naturalisation.

There is contact information on that form, maybe you can get some help but they'll go the book and only by the book usually.

If you look at the document, the next bit says "Has the person lived in the United Kingdom for the first ten years of his or her life? ", which is the case so I can register at any point.

The options I seems to have:

Prove that my mum was settled here at birth (somehow) at which point I am already a citizen. Cost: no fees but possible legal expenses
Registration of citizenship as I was born here and lived here the fist decade of my life. Cost: £631
Naturalisation. Most hassle but ultimately a fall back option. Cost: ~£1000

I obviously want to spend as little as I can, so I'll probably work through the options.

Burnsy2023 · 14 Feb 2013 at 13:01

spacedskunk said:
I think regardless of tracking down proof of your mothers whereabouts you're at least looking at the registration fee mate assuming you're registered as a German citizen?

Not necessarily, but that all comes down to what proof the authorities require, which I'm not clear on yet.

Burnsy2023 · 14 Feb 2013 at 15:38

spacedskunk said:
Click here

I've taken a picture of the support documents booklet for you, you have to provide the evidence in table A if you're applying for your first British passport and are not registered or naturalised.

They only mention passport and this is long gone :-(

Burnsy2023 · 14 Feb 2013 at 15:47

York said:
Could you not track down the electoral role for the area in which your mother lived when you were born? If she was registered at the time of the birth you could use that to prove that she was settled here?

See http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voter-registration - EU Citizens are entitled to register to vote in elections, so it's possible that she may have done so?

The addresses she lived at when I was born is on the birth certificate, but looking at the UKBA advice, this wont be enough.

Burnsy2023 · 15 Feb 2013 at 13:05

King Damager said:
Do you know anyone on your paternal side who may be able to help? Vaguely recall you being in touch with grandparents? (Although not sure whether that was paternal or maternal).

No idea if that would help mind.

kd

It's really not an option and no, I have no contact with any grandparents.