Client Problems

[schnipps]

Hi All, i have been doing sites and all sorts for years and work for a company full time doing it, i also do work on ths side. Recently come across a client and was asked to take over their current site and just maintain it, then later on to look at doing a new site.

Fast forward about 6 months, had a meeting with the client and specced out what they wanted, design wise and spec wise. Then did a large specification doc and went through everything and delivered a cost aswell. The client signed this off so i began design work.

I did 2 initial designs which they did like, however then the owner got involved who is notoriously hard to please, he thinks that flash from the 90's is still wonderfull and that horrible tacky flash animation looks just amazing. He pulls the plug on the first designs and asks me to do some more, so i work up another 3 and go in and present to them.

He agrees on one of them and asks for it to be built up and the flash area (which was a sliding leftad right affair) to be all working etc. I then get confirmation over email from the other MD that the design in that meeting was a defo and go to start. I started the build and spent a good few days getting everything spot on.

The owner then has totally changed his mind again and now doesnt want any of it, he seems to see web design and development as like doing a printed brochure and thinks you can just change anything on a whim.

Now i have the situation where he expects not only designs but each one worked up fully, so he can then decide if he wants it or not. He doessnt know what he wants when you ask him, he just says he wants something innovative, but innovative to him is a cruddy flash animation.

Now im in the situation where i have done loads fo work and havent been paid anything other then a small payment up front which has really covered the initial mock-ups. Im not sure where i go from here, what would anyone else who has been doing this for a whiel suggest? I need to charge him per build but even then we may agree on one then get to near launch and he might just pull the plug, i dont know if its even worth pursuing but i wondered if anyone had any ideas of how to go forward with his expectations if they where doing it?

Thanks

 

[Adz]

I would personally arrange a meeting with the client, agree some terms, put them in writing, have both parties sign and attach to that a specification which is also signed (there's a legal term for such an addendum but I forget what it is).

Once that is done there can really be no arguments and the client will have to pay you so long as your work meets the specification.

It might be worth speaking to a solicitor in this case about protecting your interests in this and in future dealings. An initial consultation shouldn't cost too much and you'll find it invaluable in future as this situation is bound to arise again.

Good luck .

 

[simisker]

[...] however then the owner got involved [...]

Aah, the ol' "Head of company sticks oar in" problem.

In as tactful a way possible, you need to speak to your client and tell them that just as you have a responsibility to act professionally towards them, they equally have a responsibility to act professionally towards you.

Which in this case means having one representative of their company acting as a clear 'voice of the company'. It's neither fair nor professional for you to have to determine the pecking order of the client's representatives and field multiple conflicting requests. It's up to them to have their oh-so-important internal meetings away from the designer, come to decisions and then send one person to you to relay those decisions.

[...] Now i have the situation where he expects not only designs but each one worked up fully, so he can then decide if he wants it or not. [...]

Politely but firmly point out that you'll happily investigate several solutions, but as this takes extra time, it naturally requires extra money. Which is payable in advance, given the sizeable commitment required for such a task. You have the cushion of a signed-off spec to back you up here.

Don't use phrases such as "I'd like..." or "It would be good if you could..."; you need to be forthright. "A job that involves these requirements will cost £xxx...". That sort of thing.

Don't be tempted to lowball yourself in an attempt to second-guess what he thinks would be an acceptable price; not only is he very likely to have an unrealistic figure in mind anyway, but also you need to come away feeling happy that you'll be earning a fair amount for your time and effort.

Unless, that is, you're happy to do speculative work. Which you shouldn't be, as a designer of some years' experience.

[...] Im not sure where i go from here, what would anyone else who has been doing this for a whiel suggest? I need to charge him per build but even then we may agree on one then get to near launch and he might just pull the plug, i dont know if its even worth pursuing but i wondered if anyone had any ideas of how to go forward with his expectations if they where doing it?

How badly do you want this client's work in your portfolio? Unless it's really high profile, or offering generous income [I'm guessing it's neither], then is it really worth the present and future hassle?

It may very well be in your best interests to cut your losses - an awkward, demanding client that you're currently allowing to influence your working practices isn't going to magically change overnight... unless you stand your ground. Believe in your service, know that you have specialist skills that are worthy of decent remuneration. The boss [as it's almost certain that he's going to make himself the 'voice'] may well treat you with a little more professional respect if you say "No" to him a few times.

I hope I'm not coming across all 'grow a pair' keyboard warrior, but you almost certainly can afford to let this one go if you feel it necessary. There'll be others along - just make sure to be upfront with these future clients, manage their expectations, stand firm, and be polite. It's something they don't teach in design schools - you need the diplomacy skills of Lord Vetinari

This may be a useful read, incidentally: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/getting-to-no/

Good luck. Be strong

 

[schnipps]

Aah, the ol' "Head of company sticks oar in" problem.

In as tactful a way possible, you need to speak to your client and tell them that just as you have a responsibility to act professionally towards them, they equally have a responsibility to act professionally towards you.

Which in this case means having one representative of their company acting as a clear 'voice of the company'. It's neither fair nor professional for you to have to determine the pecking order of the client's representatives and field multiple conflicting requests. It's up to them to have their oh-so-important internal meetings away from the designer, come to decisions and then send one person to you to relay those decisions.


Politely but firmly point out that you'll happily investigate several solutions, but as this takes extra time, it naturally requires extra money. Which is payable in advance, given the sizeable commitment required for such a task. You have the cushion of a signed-off spec to back you up here.

Don't use phrases such as "I'd like..." or "It would be good if you could..."; you need to be forthright. "A job that involves these requirements will cost £xxx...". That sort of thing.

Don't be tempted to lowball yourself in an attempt to second-guess what he thinks would be an acceptable price; not only is he very likely to have an unrealistic figure in mind anyway, but also you need to come away feeling happy that you'll be earning a fair amount for your time and effort.

Unless, that is, you're happy to do speculative work. Which you shouldn't be, as a designer of some years' experience.



How badly do you want this client's work in your portfolio? Unless it's really high profile, or offering generous income [I'm guessing it's neither], then is it really worth the present and future hassle?

It may very well be in your best interests to cut your losses - an awkward, demanding client that you're currently allowing to influence your working practices isn't going to magically change overnight... unless you stand your ground. Believe in your service, know that you have specialist skills that are worthy of decent renumeration. The boss [as it's almost certain that he's going to make himself the 'voice'] may well treat you with a little more professional respect if you say "No" to him a few times.

I hope I'm not coming across all 'grow a pair' keyboard warrior, but you almost certainly can afford to let this one go if you feel it necessary. There'll be others along - just make sure to be upfront with these future clients, manage their expectations, stand firm, and be polite. It's something they don't teach in design schools - you need the diplomacy skills of Lord Vetinari

This may be a useful read, incidentally: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/getting-to-no/

Good luck. Be strong

You didnt come across badly atall, i think that was a very well put together statement and i agree with it. No i dont need them as a client, the money is potentially nice going forward as they are not to bad with regards to rates etc, they will pay good money its just at what price to my sanity.

I am going to try and get a meeting next week with the boss and will deal with him and him only, i will state the case that worked up designs will cost x amount and if he doesnt like them when worked up it is still to be paid, so yes the advance payment is probably the best way. If he wont agree to that then i will walk away.

The whoel way in which he wants to conduct the site is backwards, i think he wants to agree on the design and get it built then start thinking about the rest of the site, then agree the overall cost. This is not the way i work or do i beleive web work should be done as it opens up many potential problems, and you are right to say its against my practices. I think he is just another one of those company owners with money who demands things and perhaps not many have ever said 'No' or questioned him.

Thanks for your advice and also Adz.