clocked

[davisdavid]

Need a little advice, I bought a BMW 1 Series last March (privately) and immediatley the car needed work because the rear sensors were rubbing against the axle causing the car think it was skidding which would remove power as a safety guard I suspect. I took this on the chin and thought I'm partially at fault for not picking up on this although it wouldn't show on a quick test drive, only when it hit the motorway.

Now it is back in the garage as the previous owner has tampered with the DPF, removed the sensors to the DPF and also modified the software so that the onboard doesn't register that there is a fault or a modification. I thought this would be the end of it but now BMW have said they believe the car has been clocked for roughly 50k meaning the 87k I believe it has done has more than like done upwards of 135k.

Has anyone had any problems like this before with a complete and utter .......... ? If so what is the best way to go about it as in how do I prove it was the previous owner and that the car description flat out lied and was not in fact sold as seen?

TIA.

 

[davisdavid]

Cheers for the replies.

It was £7000 when I bought it, then a further £1000 on two new tyres and the sensor fix as per OP.

HPI check was clear, I remember doing it before I went to pick it up.

Paid in cash (bank transfer NatWest to NatWest)

MOT history now looks strange in that it is a 57 plate so being uber forgiving and allowing that it may have been driven as of Jan 2008, its first MOT was in Feb 11 showing only 10,236m on the clock. (OP should read M not K's).

Then yearly it is (all October) 2011 - 20, 2012 - 32, 2013 - 42, 2014 - 57 (then I purchase it at around 61 in Mar 14) and then the last one was Oct 2015 - 75 which makes sense as I do 2000 a month on daily commute and personal and over 7 months.

More I think about it the more convinced I am that I won't be able to do anything and that this is going to be one of those confirmatory exercises in never trusting anyone outside of your own home.

 

[davisdavid]

Looks like it has had its **** clocked off just before it had its first MOT

Sadly there is not allot you can do I would imagine as a private sale, no way of proving the previous seller knew.

The best you can do is be pragmatic and get the car right and back to stock and suck up the hefty bill.

Sadly I have to agree, think I've got to take the hit on this.

Just over 10000 miles in the first three years. Surely whoever did the MOT could spot that a mile off? Unless they're in on it of course.

I need to check the log book tomorrow when I get the car back but it had FBMWSH up until late 2013 so it must have been done on the side and maybe a few thousand miles at a time. BMW probably never picked up on it before because even at 40/50/60 thousand the car should stil be running fine, it's only when you go beyond 80/90 that the wear and tear becomes apparent.

why do BMW think it has been clocked ?

does it look and drive like a car thats done mega miles or one thats done what the clock says ?

Having not driven a BMW for a year before (this is my first BMW ) I have no reference to relate but to me it feels fine and fair enough there is a little wear on the suspension, maybe lost a little engine power but nothing significant but suddenly I hit the M4 one morning and it just became a juddering box.

I'll have to speak to BMW tomorrow, my missus took the call today cos I don't get phone signal at work. Surely the onboard computer has some semblance of a mileage log or indication of history.

I'm sincerely hoping there is a mismatch between the service history and the MOT history as then I can pin point a date and owner. I'm the 3rd owner overall.

 

[davisdavid]

Check the MOT history online, just google mot history check and the gov website will tell you the cars mot history from 2003 I believe. see if theres anything unusual with the mileage recorded over the years. Clocking a car is illegal and you might have a good case against the seller over costs in court perhaps.

EDIT

I spoke too late

MOT history goes back to 2011 for all cars I think. online at least anyway.

 

[davisdavid]

Just checked, its 2005 onwards.

here

Ah fair enough, mine goes back to 2011 which makes sense for a 57 plate probably registered in Jan / Feb 2008.

 

[davisdavid]

So there's no actual proof that it's been clocked? Just a dealer spouting rubbish?

Perhaps someone had it on a fairly low mileage limited lease for 2/3 years and then the remainder of the users have used it properly. It's an 8 year old car so it will start to feel a bit worn anyway.

Maybe, but I can't see a logical reason why BMW Salisbury would state that it had been clocked for no reason.

I'm getting the car back tomorrow which has the service log book in it so I can check the MOT against service history. Then I can quiz them on the clocked claim.

Of the top of my head I'm the third owner so it is entirely plausible that the first owner only did 10k over 3 years but from my perspective why would you buy a brand new 1 series coupe and hardly use it for 3 years before selling?

Either way I think unless the MOT/Service history shows a disparity then there's nothing I can do about other than learn not to go private again. The replies are much appreciated. Will update as and when I know more.

 

[davisdavid]

Soooooo, got the service book back with my car minus £1100.

Service Record: 31,171 miles - 10/07/13

MOT Certificate: 32,000 miles - 11/10/12

Legal action is a go by the looks of it.

As for the rest:

MOT

16/02/11 - 10,236 miles
28/10/11 - 20,068 miles
11/10/12 - 32,000 miles
25/10/13 - 42,254 miles
18/10/14 - 57,282 miles

I purchase 09/03/15 at around 62,000 miles

28/10/15 - 75,165 miles

Service

05/02/10 - 6,576 miles
08/03/11 - 14,211 miles
06/06/12 - 25,617 miles
10/07/13 - 31,171 miles
07/03/14 - 44,119 miles

Obviously I'll have to do more checks against the MOTs and check any discrepancies against the MOT test numbers before proceeding but it looks better than it did last night.

 

[davisdavid]

despite your gut instinct and the paperwork you have - it's going to be very hard to prove

I know, that's why I need to check everything over before proceeding but those figures are so far out it'd be hard to argue against it. Especially if I already have BMW Salisbury thinking it has been clocked.

 

[davisdavid]

sorry to keep going on about it..... but have you looked for any physical signs of tampering?

Not yet, didn't get home til after dark

Against whom and for what?

I can't see anything there that shows anything negative. It mostly seems to tally up and the only unusual things are that it covered 4000 miles in the space of 3 weeks between its second service and it's first MOT but as unusual as that sounds it proves nothing and is possible - I've put 4000-5000 miles on a car in a similar period of time in the past for example. Secondly 10k miles in 4 months seems odd but it doesnt look like evidence of clocking does it? It just looks odd.

So exactly who are you going to take action against and for what? When do you think it was clocked and why? Potentially it may have happened before the cars first service but, and this is a big BUT, even if it was who do you think you can sue? The offence is misrepresenting the mileage in a sale, did the person who may or may not have done something in 2011 do that to you?

Service Record: 31,171 miles - 10/07/13

MOT Certificate: 32,000 miles - 11/10/12

This is the issue - even if we accept people make mistakes when entering the data, minus 829 miles in 9 months is pretty spectacular.

i still dont get why you first decided it must be clocked ?

because of the 1k bill ? on a premium car



its what people do !

they buy a car to drive the short distance to work and back every day and look nice in the car park then after 3 years it is old to them so they trade it in for a new one

my mum did this constantly

I didn't decide it must be clocked, that was the feedback from BMW via my local garage. The car went into my local garage because it was juddering for no reason, then it transpired the DPF had been circumvented, sensors removed, software tampered with as BMW found and then they said they believed there was a strong possibility it had been clocked. M

My issue isn't with the erratic jumps in mileage, all the servicing was done in Airdrie (everytime) for a guy who owned the car living in Wiltshire.

I've got two options, chase it down and see how far I get whilst declaring the car is potentially clocked or part ex it and effectively do the same as what has happened to me if there is in fact an issue with the odometer reading.

 

[davisdavid]

Best bet is stick your head in the sand, forget about it, convince yourself it's ok and then sell it in a couple of years when the value of the car is low enough that it's the condition and not the mileage that's important to any new owner.

I'm not going to lose sleep over it but I will check with CAB this week about where I stand.

 

[davisdavid]

Ah, I see now. I think it's a definite mistake - the MOT record is very specific so I bet it's been entered wrong.



I don't understand who you think you can chase for this though? Lets assume it did happen and the 32000 entry is not a mistake. This was 4 years ago! Who owned the car then?

If it wasn't the person who sold it to you then this is a complete dead end - IIRC it isn't against the law to change your cars mileage, but it's against the law to misrepresent it. So if the person who sold you the car isn't the one who did it...

It is the same owner throughout, bar the first 3 years of the car being registered. All the MOT/ Services above are from the same guy.