? clutch pedal no resistance - only change gear when motor off & sometimes when rolling.

[jpaul]

could be a survey - 3'er e46 manual whats's broken ?

symptoms :
clutch pedal has no resistance,
can only reliably select gear when motor off - so had to pull away by engaging 1st/2nd and moving immediately once starter motor engaged.
could sometimes change gear once rolling (trying to be gentle when car not under load) but was sometimes finding neutral, and unable to find a gear.
just drove 20miles odd miles back from Cambridge to my favourite garage/mechanic, rather than home, to avoid a AA recovery scenario,
mostly roundabouts thankfully, so had to anticipate them and keep in 5th/rolling.
car would stall in the situations I had to stop, since it was still in gear.

Options
1. Clutch cable
2. clutch itself - pretty sure is not worn, but I don't understand symptoms of release bearings/spring failure
3. Hydraulic systems that they maybed involved
....

 

[5abr3]

I would expect the further away from the clutch pedal the failure the more resistance you would be seeing.

If there's absolutely none I would therefore assume it's the clutch pedal cable personally.

 

[Removed User 345456]

could be a survey - 3'er e46 manual whats's broken ?

symptoms :
clutch pedal has no resistance,
can only reliably select gear when motor off - so had to pull away by engaging 1st/2nd and moving immediately once starter motor engaged.
could sometimes change gear once rolling (trying to be gentle when car not under load) but was sometimes finding neutral, and unable to find a gear.
just drove 20miles odd miles back from Cambridge to my favourite garage/mechanic, rather than home, to avoid a AA recovery scenario,
mostly roundabouts thankfully, so had to anticipate them and keep in 5th/rolling.
car would stall in the situations I had to stop, since it was still in gear.

Options
1. Clutch cable
2. clutch itself - pretty sure is not worn, but I don't understand symptoms of release bearings/spring failure
3. Hydraulic systems that they maybed involved
....

They're hydraulic mate there is no cable.

It sounds potentially like a dodgy clutch slave cylinder.

 

[gc123]

aye son had same symptons with his 46 quick slave cylinder swap and bleed.

 

[nicRob]

Sounds like slave cylinder, sometimes you can pump the pedal a load and get some pressure to operate the clutch

Not too bad a job to change normally (unless it's concentric, but doesn't seem to be on E46!)

 

[bainbridge]

If the clutch and slave cylinder has been changed at some point in the life of the car, which is often done at the same time during to the work involved, it could be the master cylinder at fault if the car still has the original.

If you can get at the master cylinder above the clutch pedal, giving it a wiggle around might restore some pressure temporarily and confirm the master is at fault.

If the slave has never been changed it could well be that.

 

[jpaul]

Thanks folks -( as you say no clutch cable just a master & slave cylinder from watching a video )

neither cylinder has ever been changed, and, as you say looks easier to change if slave is responsible;

kinda glad I drove to the garage, as doing this on the driveway (must empty garage) in winter doesn't look fun - & lift, always helps.

If the fluid were leaking, guess I don't understand how the brakes might not get impacted if the fluid level dropped,but, probably needs to loose a lot.

 

[Diddums]

Ah, the dance of gears, a whimsical show,In the realm of E46, where mysteries grow.The clutch pedal floats, no resistance in sight,As if lifted by fairies in the soft moonlight.

Could it be the clutch cable, stretched and bent?Or the hydraulic systems, on a journey sent?The gears play tricks, like jesters in a play,Leaving you stranded, in dismay.

But fear not, dear friend, for answers will come,In the land of Cambridge, under the sun.Consult the wise owl, with eyes so bright,And unravel the riddles, hidden in plain sight.

So dance with your vehicle, in the cosmic ballet,And soon you'll find solutions, along the way.For the 3'er E46 manual, a tale so grand,Where whimsy and wonder, go hand in hand.

 

[lordrobs]

Thanks folks -( as you say no clutch cable just a master & slave cylinder from watching a video )

neither cylinder has ever been changed, and, as you say looks easier to change if slave is responsible;

kinda glad I drove to the garage, as doing this on the driveway (must empty garage) in winter doesn't look fun - & lift, always helps.

If the fluid were leaking, guess I don't understand how the brakes might not get impacted if the fluid level dropped,but, probably needs to loose a lot.

Different hydraulic system to the brakes. Normally it is, pedal sticks to the floor and fluid leaking = slave cylinder. Lack of resistance, clutch may be operational if you pump it a bit = master cylinder.

I misdiagnosed it as the slave on my MX5 so ended up doing both and it was a simple job. Bleeding the system was probably the hardest part. Access is normally the problem so hopefully the E46 is easy in that regard.

 

[jpaul]

yes I'didn't even think of pumping pedal - was concerned about breaking gear stick linkage, after finding box of neutrals.

But fear not, dear friend, for answers will come,In the land of Cambridge, under the sun

I've probably discovered an advantage of Cambridge - it's the flatlands (not quite where sissy spacek lived) so no hill starts required,
they would have meant a rolling start based on force of starter motor is impossible, or, just travelling backwards.

 

[Removed User 345456]

Thanks folks -( as you say no clutch cable just a master & slave cylinder from watching a video )

neither cylinder has ever been changed, and, as you say looks easier to change if slave is responsible;

kinda glad I drove to the garage, as doing this on the driveway (must empty garage) in winter doesn't look fun - & lift, always helps.

If the fluid were leaking, guess I don't understand how the brakes might not get impacted if the fluid level dropped,but, probably needs to loose a lot.

You're welcome

FWIW it's worth changing both the slave/master, as in true sods law fashion you usually end up killing the one you didn't change shortly after replacing only 1 of them, seen this happen countless times on cars, your choice, but you may as well considering you'll have to bleed the system anyway.

Also you could fit a brand new clutch line/uprate it to a braided line, will give you better feel too, I run HEL braided brake/clutch lines on everything. Many brands you can choose, and very cheap. With brake lines it makes a world of difference with the pedal feel/progression vs an normal line which can expand.

Do it once do it right, I always change things in pairs if one side goes, but I am very anal with cars, means though it'll 'just work' and for age then Up to you

 

[jpaul]

FWIW it's worth changing both the slave/master,

yes I probably would do, doing it myself ... the man hours for the master look, from video as though they would be significant - taking apart the footwell;

whether failure on these is also indicative of brake cylinders state too ....
albeit learning above that it is a separate hydraulic system I wonder if hydroscopic clutch fluid had ever been replaced - I'm clearly non-curious, that I had never seen/inspected that reservoir.

 

[lordrobs]

yes I probably would do, doing it myself ... the man hours for the master look, from video as though they would be significant - taking apart the footwell;

whether failure on these is also indicative of brake cylinders state too ....
albeit learning above that it is a separate hydraulic system I wonder if hydroscopic clutch fluid had ever been replaced - I'm clearly non-curious, that I had never seen/inspected that reservoir.

The issue with brake fluid absorbing moisture is that with the amount of heat generated during braking it's possible for this to be transferred to the fluid and said moisture then effectively boils adding compressible gas to the system which then in turns gives you poor pedal feel and lack of braking effort where it counts.

You don't get that heat issue with the clutch operation so there's far less need to change the fluid.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

yes I probably would do, doing it myself ... the man hours for the master look, from video as though they would be significant - taking apart the footwell;

whether failure on these is also indicative of brake cylinders state too ....
albeit learning above that it is a separate hydraulic system I wonder if hydroscopic clutch fluid had ever been replaced - I'm clearly non-curious, that I had never seen/inspected that reservoir.

Yeah man hours with anything clutch related is usually horrendous I've been told the clutch wants replacing on mine its heavy but otherwise no issues maybe I'm old school but I generally only change clutches when theres no bite left especially when you're talking getting on for a grand for the work

 

[Removed User 345456]

yes I probably would do, doing it myself ... the man hours for the master look, from video as though they would be significant - taking apart the footwell;

whether failure on these is also indicative of brake cylinders state too ....
albeit learning above that it is a separate hydraulic system I wonder if hydroscopic clutch fluid had ever been replaced - I'm clearly non-curious, that I had never seen/inspected that reservoir.

I think you're getting confused with replacing the servo with the master cylinder, vs just fitting a new master cylinder to it? You have to bleed the system regardless, so it's not a big deal to unbolt the master cylinder off the servo/disconnect it's lines/replace it, no harder than the slave.

However replacing the servo, yes is annoying getting in the footwell, but still not a big deal tbh.

 

[jpaul]

I think you're getting confused with replacing the servo with the master cylinder,

I sorta meant if the clutch slave/master were going , presumably because of corrosion or failing seals, whether brake master would soon follow it ?
however if their reservoirs were different as I wrongly inferred V perhaps the clutch cylinder always failed sooner due to contribution of older/unbled fluid ie. bad maintenance,

even though I see they share same reservoir, I don't know if on previous brake fluid changes they did bleed clutch to force through new fluid - is that normal practise ?
[

Different hydraulic system to the brakes.

]

..
my great mechanic just rang me to say it is the slave - which he's done - and he doesn't normally expect master to follow suit.

 

[Removed User 345456]

I sorta meant if the clutch slave/master were going , presumably because of corrosion or failing seals, whether brake master would soon follow it ?
however if their reservoirs were different as I wrongly inferred V perhaps the clutch cylinder always failed sooner due to contribution of older/unbled fluid ie. bad maintenance,

even though I see they share same reservoir, I don't know if on previous brake fluid changes they did bleed clutch to force through new fluid - is that normal practise ?
[

]

..
my great mechanic just rang me to say it is the slave - which he's done - and he doesn't normally expect master to follow suit.

Servo's don't really tend to fail mate, never seen one do so on any car tbh mine or my mates, the only time we've ever taken a servo off was to fit a bigger one to go with a bigger set of brakes etc to match the peddle feel, so you'll be fine just doing the master/slave

 

[Cyber-Mav]

happened to me when clutch cable snapped. clutch pedal did nothing, was still able to drive by timing the gear changes, helps that its my daily driver for the last 26 years so even today i drive it around changing gears without using clutch at times.