Connecting washing machine to fused spur

iamdjdz

iamdjdz

iamdjdz

Soldato
Joined
24 Nov 2006
Posts
5,019
Getting a washing machine for new house which has a fused faceplate instead of a socket (switch is above the worktop with other appliances), got a few questions:

Am I going to be able to do this myself? Never fitted to a spur but not stupid and work with data termination regularly, changed plugs etc in the past etc.

How do I get the wires to come out of the faceplate? It protrudes from the wall slightly but doesn't have any holes in the sides or face of the faceplate.

Presumably the fuse just has to be a 13amp one to match the one on the plug?
 
Daft question - is there not a socket beneath the work top?

Sometimes you have just the socket no switch then the fused switch / isolator else were.
 
No, no socket, it's just a blank faceplate with a fuse on it. I'm tempted to fit a new socket but if it's a neater or better job then I'm also happy to have a go at the spur if it's simple enough?
 
You'd need to change the spur for one with a front cable exit if you want to go down that route, although it might be a pain if you can't easily unplug it for servicing etc. The best job would be to move the spur to below the surface and replace with a socket which would likely be easy enough if it's a plasterboard wall.
 
I did think of a recessed socket but I'm not sure of the depth below the plasterboard? Or where to source one? If it's just a case of stripping the cable and wiring it into some connections in the spur faceplate I should be able to manage that for maintenance etc.
 
iamdjdz said:
No, no socket, it's just a blank faceplate with a fuse on it.
Click to expand...

That really is strange. As RJC says, its quite common to have an unswitched socket for an appliance hidden low down or in a cupboard with an accessible switch/FCU above the worktop.

Personally I'd remove the faceplate first just to check if there are wires leading from the "load" side. If so then there's almost certainly a socket hidden somewhere.
 
paintguy said:
That really is strange. As RJC says, its quite common to have an unswitched socket for an appliance hidden low down or in a cupboard with an accessible switch/FCU above the worktop.

Personally I'd remove the faceplate first just to check if there are wires leading from the "load" side. If so then there's almost certainly a socket hidden somewhere.
Click to expand...

Yeah there's an accessible switch in a block with ones for other appliances such as fridge freezer, tumble dryer, dishwasher etc, with the black fused faceplate behind the gap for washing machine and also one of the cupboards (I can only see behind one) where the gaps have been filled for the other appliances.

I'll take it off and see what's connected either later today or in the week.

Is the general consensus to just replace it with a switched socket?
 
paintguy said:
If there's already a switch in the circuit then it doesn't even need to be a switched one, but swapping to a socket outlet does sound like the best plan if the wiring doesn't lead on from it to anywhere else.
Click to expand...

Cool, I'll have a look, I'm confident wiring a new socket in, I suppose in the long run it will be more beneficial especially if the machine lasts longer than we live in the house, don't have to worry so much about moving it.
 
iamdjdz said:
No, no socket, it's just a blank faceplate with a fuse on it. I'm tempted to fit a new socket but if it's a neater or better job then I'm also happy to have a go at the spur if it's simple enough?
Click to expand...

Hello.
You can't replace it with a 13A socket. It is a fused spur and it's performing an important function. If it is a fused outlet then there would be a hole in it to let a cable out, so the only conclusion is that it's a spur. A spur is where you take a cable off the ring main to feed a few extra sockets. Commonly they appear in kitchens where people want extra sockets. The single cable is lower current than the ring main so it needs to be protected by it's own fuse. If you replace the fused spur with a socket then you are no longer protected and if there is a fault the entire spur could melt and catch fire. You could replace it with a fused outlet spur, but you need to have a look see if you have room for all those wires in the back box.
It's possible of course it's no longer used. You will find that out when you look inside. See what wires it has.Switch the mains off and take a look inside. count the cables on the IN and the OUT. The numbers will tell you what it's doing. While you are there, see if you have room for another on the OUT.
 
Hard to tell but it sounds like you so have a bank of fused spurs controlling outlets for appliances.

I'm some cases a spur outlet is used for a tighter fit, for example a dishwasher is normally quite deep and having a socket behind with the plug stops you pushing the appliance back far enough, to gain that extra room a outlet plate should be used and the appliance hard wired into it using the bottom entrance of the outlet.

It's entirely possible the electrician who did this kitchen does this as standard practice but just used fused spurs as outlet plates.
 
Pocah said:
Hello.
You can't replace it with a 13A socket. It is a fused spur and it's performing an important function. If it is a fused outlet then there would be a hole in it to let a cable out, so the only conclusion is that it's a spur. A spur is where you take a cable off the ring main to feed a few extra sockets. Commonly they appear in kitchens where people want extra sockets. The single cable is lower current than the ring main so it needs to be protected by it's own fuse. If you replace the fused spur with a socket then you are no longer protected and if there is a fault the entire spur could melt and catch fire. You could replace it with a fused outlet spur, but you need to have a look see if you have room for all those wires in the back box.
It's possible of course it's no longer used. You will find that out when you look inside. See what wires it has.Switch the mains off and take a look inside. count the cables on the IN and the OUT. The numbers will tell you what it's doing. While you are there, see if you have room for another on the OUT.
Click to expand...

So it's got an above counter switch for the spur but no socket below just the faceplate. Am I wrong in thinking that the plug's fuse would provide the protection whereas the spur is protected by the fuse instead (ie if plug cut off)?

I really need to remove it and see what connections it has though.
 
iamdjdz said:
So it's got an above counter switch for the spur but no socket below just the faceplate. Am I wrong in thinking that the plug's fuse would provide the protection whereas the spur is protected by the fuse instead (ie if plug cut off)?

I really need to remove it and see what connections it has though.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd ignore his drivel tbh mate.
 
iamdjdz said:
So it's got an above counter switch for the spur but no socket below just the faceplate. Am I wrong in thinking that the plug's fuse would provide the protection whereas the spur is protected by the fuse instead (ie if plug cut off)?

I really need to remove it and see what connections it has though.
Click to expand...

There are two things it can be. It is either a fused spur or it is a fused outlet. They may or may not be placed below the fuse.

If it is a fused spur then it will be supplying one or two sockets in the room. In that case the fuse is protecting those sockets.
If it is a fused outlet then there will be no sockets that are connected to it ( so no cable on the OUT / LOAD side ), but also it should have a hole in it for a cable to connect to a device.
So based on the fact that it hasn't got a hole, then it is a fused spur and there must be at least two sockets coming off it.
But there are several ways to check for sure. The first one is to remove the fuse and see if any sockets die. If they do then the fuse has to remain.
Another, safer way, is to take a look inside...

Here are all the possibilities...
If there are no cables connected to the OUT then indeed it is a fused outlet and it can be replaced with a socket. There may be one or two cables connected to the IN.
If however there is a cable connected on the OUT then it is a fused spur and it is providing power to other things, probably sockets. In that case the fuse has to remain. It could also be the supply for something like a cooker hood or fan, again, in which case the fuse has to remain.

A fuse in a fused spur is to protect the wiring in the wall not the device connected to it. A normal ring main has a 30~32A fuse and has 2.5mm2 ring of cables that can tolerate far more than the fuse. However if you run a single 2.5mm2 cable off a ring main it will not tolerate 32A. It will catch fire if put 32A through it. So if you have more than one socket on a spur the regulations state the spur must be fused. This is because more than one socket can legitimately exceed the capacity of a single 2.5mm2 cable without tripping a ring main the fuse.

If it is a supply for the cooker hood or a fan it's often simply because these devices sometimes don'e have supplied fuses, and again the fuse must be kept.

It's not drivel, it's called regulations and if you screw it up your insurance company will not pay out if you burn the house down, and further than that they will pursue you if it kills someone, even after you have sold the house.

So yes, take a look inside and see what's there. That will tell you what it is. But if it is there to something wired on the OUT/LOAD the fuse has to remain. You can still use it, you just have to replace it with the right thing.
 
Last edited:
Yeah I know the regulations, I get assessed on them yearly.

But what he has described is unlikely to be a fused spur placed in the washer space of a kitchen.

Turn the power off and have a look but it's unlikely hes got a bank of spurs controlling the fridge and cooker etc and not have one for the washer.

I find it's normally best to give a little info on here at a time.
 
ZG002 said:
Yeah I know the regulations, I get assessed on them yearly.

But what he has described is unlikely to be a fused spur placed in the washer space of a kitchen.

Turn the power off and have a look but it's unlikely hes got a bank of spurs controlling the fridge and cooker etc and not have one for the washer.

I find it's normally best to give a little info on here at a time.
Click to expand...

But why would someone put a fused outlet with nothing connected to it and no holes in the front ( like nothing has ever been connected to it )?

I mean I agree that it could be anything and he needs to check, but personally based on his description it seems to me that it is perhaps a retrofitted spur in the kitchen that is powering a number of other sockets that are taken horizontally from the item in question. It just seems to me to be completely stupid to put a fused outlet there with nothing connected to it. He really needs to get the front off to check there is indeed nothing connected to it. But I think the important thing here is not to just replace it with a socket without checking what it is for..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom