Considering an upgrade

[box]

Hi there,
I've been very happy with my current system for the last 3 years; it has been flawless on XP while doing work and playing games. But I have recently acquired Windows Vista and a 22" display. Windows Vista tends to really hog the CPU sometimes, and with a single core this is a nightmare. Also, with the widescreen my 6600GT is starting to show its age. I will be needing to buy another TFT soon as dual monitors are very useful when working. I thought this would be the ideal time to consider an upgrade.

My specs are in the sig. I am reluctant to replace the mainboard just yet, and so I have been looking into the following options...

Replace NVIDIA XFX 6600GT 128MB

with Sapphire ATI Radeon X1950 Pro 512MB here


Replace AMD64 3700+ 2.2Ghz

with AMD64 X2 4800 2.4Ghz (found for ~£140 on auction sites)


Buy either 22" widescreen or 17" standard TFT

Please let me know what you think of the above choices. Will the upgrades be compatible with Vista? (esp. the vid card)

Are there any special considerations when buying the 4800? e.g. the 4400 comes with either a 1MB or 2MB cache...I would be looking for the best version available if possible

I already have a 22" belinea widescreen. What would you suggest to use as a second monitor for displaying windows while working on the main screen? Widescreen? Standard screen?

And above all....will I notice a considerable performance increase?

Thanks for your help.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Everything there is compatible with Vista although the graphics card is still a DX9 part so you won't get some of the 'shinier' features that DX10 supports but that still only really applies to some games.

 

[Fire Wizard]

Hello tim80bwi, what motherboard will you be using?

As regards to the CPU, is that £140 just for the AMD64 X2 4800 2.4Ghz?

 

[box]

Everything there is compatible with Vista although the graphics card is still a DX9 part so you won't get some of the 'shinier' features that DX10 supports but that still only really applies to some games.

That was my only concern. Is there anything you would suggest waiting for?

Hello tim80bwi, what motherboard will you be using?

As regards to the CPU, is that £140 just for the AMD64 X2 4800 2.4Ghz?

Motherboard is the ECS KV2...yes I knows it's cheap and nasty! But it has served me well.

Yes that's £140 for the CPU w/heatsink + fan

 

[Fire Wizard]

Hello tim80bwi, at the price that you could well be paying for the AMD 4800 and the X1950 Pro, you may actually be better off either changing to the AMD AM2 socket of the Intel LGA 775. Just a suggestion that may well be worth looking in to.

 

[AgedIdiot]

Personally i would go for a x2 3800 - £47'ish here and overclock it .
Should reach 2.6 easily - mine does running nice and cool on air.
Did move to an Opteron 185 (2.6) with 1mb cache per core - yes a bit quicker but not £100+ more.
Most reviews I have seen ref 512kb/1mb cache advise very little difference between 'em.
Some games and other software are written with muti-core in mind and for those you will see a good improvement over your old cpu - generally I found the move resulted in a smoother experience rather than being blindingly faster.( if your multi tasking then , yes in general the multi is quicker.)
Your new gpu should give you a very good boost.
Cannot comment on monitor as I have no experience of 2 monitor set ups.
Nothing wrong with x2 4800 but I would save £100 for next project just not worth that much more than a x2 3800

 

[AgedIdiot]

P.S Also have a look at the thread in graphics cards ref the 3850 coming to AGP - Direct X 10 etc.
Not yet on sale that i have seen but may available before long & may be of interest to you

 

[box]

Hello tim80bwi, at the price that you could well be paying for the AMD 4800 and the X1950 Pro, you may actually be better off either changing to the AMD AM2 socket of the Intel LGA 775. Just a suggestion that may well be worth looking in to.

snip

That is very tempting. My only reservation is that I have just spent £80 on replacing faulty DDR1 RAM. And you may think that was stupid, but it was either that or have no PC to work from...so I was a bit stuck. On the other hand, the said DDR1 modules are going for £50+ on auction so I may be OK. You've got me in two minds now!

If I am going for the complete overhaul I would want to clear up a couple of things. Firstly, what happens when I boot up having installed all the new hardware. Forgetting windows activation, I would presumably have all the old hardware drivers sitting around doing nothing on the hard drive. Will this cause any problems?

Also, I have heard that for clean builds these days, Intel are the people to go with...how much truth is in this?

PS: I have little experience of ATI product numbering...how does this 3850 compare against the 1950?

 

[Fire Wizard]

That is very tempting. My only reservation is that I have just spent £80 on replacing faulty DDR1 RAM. And you may think that was stupid, but it was either that or have no PC to work from...so I was a bit stuck.

Hello tim80bwi, not at all.

You've got me in two minds now!

Sorry.

Firstly, what happens when I boot up having installed all the new hardware.

Your system will all most likely keep restarting itself or you will receive blue screens of death.

What you would need to do is, completely format your hard drive, backing up all of your important before hand and doing a fresh installation of Windows Vista.

Also, I have heard that for clean builds these days, Intel are the people to go with...how much truth is in this?

That is very much dependent on one thing really, will you be looking to overclock your system, if so then the smart choice would be to build an Intel based system. If you are just looking to keep your system at stock settings then I would advice going for an AMD based system since they offer great performance for the money.

PS: I have little experience of ATI product numbering...how does this 3850 compare against the 1950?

The PowerColor ATI Radeon HD 3850 Pro Extreme 512MB is amazing for the price and as regards to the performance, it is a lot faster than the X1950 Pro.

Now one thing I didn't mention, which may ultimately be the deciding factor weather or not you will be changing your system completely is the licensing terms of Windows Vista.

If you have the Windows Vista OEM License then I am afraid you will have to purchase a new License (Copy of Windows Vista) otherwise you will be violating the terms of the EULA. This is because, the licensing terms of the OEM license are as follows:

You can change any system component in your system as many times as you wish apart from the motherboard and you will still be licensed. Now you may have to re-activate Windows Vista after a hardware and/or configuration change either by the online process or if it fails for various reasons, you will have to ring them up. If you do have to ring them up and speak with a Microsoft Agent, just tell them the truth, what exactly has happened and they will happily re-activate your copy of Windows for you. You will not be violating the EULA and you are still within your rights to use Windows Vista.

Now if you change your motherboard for a performance upgrade (We are not talking about replacing your motherboard under warranty), then I am afraid you will have to purchase a new copy of Windows Vista (License).

As opposed to the Retail licensing terms which are as follows:

With the Retail version you will be able to install it on as many systems as you like so long as you are only using one license at a time. So if you install it on Machine A and wish to install it on Machine B, you will first have to completely uninstall Windows Vista from Machine A before you have the right to install it on Machine B.

 

[bad_egg]

Hi tim,

re: the monitor, Id deffinatley recommend you get another of the same 22, dual screens of different sizes and resolutions can just be an annoyance - additionally, it's very hard to get 2 different monitors to output the same colour, oftem one of the RGB channels will be out. This is especially important if you do any photoshop/premiere work etc.

certainly make sure whatever graphics card you get has dual dvi - as you will see a difference is one runs from dvi and the other.... whatever the standard sockets called

incidently, i recently built a pc with the 256mb 1950 and runs COD4 very well.

good luck!

 

[box]

Fire Wizard, thank you for the very useful reply. I have only recently formatted to install Vista, and so am reluctant to do it again; although it's not a massive drawback...it's just the time required

In terms of overclocking, I guess the answer is I'm not sure. I've never really overclocked on the current system mainly because the motherboard is so naff, and keeps crashing Vista. But if you say Intels overclock well (on stock cooling) then I'd be open to giving it a go.

Yes I'm aware of the issues surrounding Vista OEM. I purchased a second license a while back for a different reason but never ended up using it, so hopefully I can use that and all should be ok.

Something to note is that if I did build up from scratch I'd be looking to spend a bit more than the equivalent of a sckt939 upgrade. I'm not too sure about buying 'value' components - would rather wait a month and buy the real deal. So I may just buy the monitor for now and sit on my hands for a couple of months.

From what I can see...

Upgrading current system incl. CPU, Graph ~ £200

Building from scratch incl. CPU, Graph, Mem, Mobo ~ £300 - 350 (minus £50 for selling old mem...so ~£275)

 

[box]

Hi tim,

re: the monitor, Id deffinatley recommend you get another of the same 22, dual screens of different sizes and resolutions can just be an annoyance - additionally, it's very hard to get 2 different monitors to output the same colour, oftem one of the RGB channels will be out. This is especially important if you do any photoshop/premiere work etc.

That's a fair point. I do web design so it probably won't be a massive issue. But I agree, symmetry is much easier on the eye.

 

[Ogri]

I had to do a system repair a couple of weeks back for someone that got their gear wiped out in a thunderstorm (they didn't even know about surge and spike protectors /sigh). Basically everything inside the box had to be replaced.

Phoned Vista registration up and explained the score, and they issued a new key no probs.

PS a P31 motherboard such as http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-101-GI&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=1015 along with an E21**/E22** and some http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-095-CS&groupid=701&catid=8&subcat=144 memory should give a decent, solid, reliable system that'll last for years.

As for the 3850, I'm really interested in trying those myself. Are the ATi drivers MS certified now and good enough for solid dependability?

Reason I ask is, I've tried ATi in hopes ever since they came on the market, and usually ended up with more grief due to the drivers than has ever been worthwhile. E.G one card I had to use 3 different drivers, to play 3 different games, which utterly sucks.

 

[box]

Another thing I'm a bit confused about having been out of the component market for a few years: The CPUs being suggested are all £50-80. When I bought my 3700+ (which was mid/high-end at the time), I paid about £150 for it. Is it the case that CPUs have become cheaper, or are these CPUs a bit less powerful compared to today's lineup?

 

[semi-pro waster]

The CPUs that are being suggested are low-mid range at stock but the E2XX0 range overclock very well indeed so it isn't a handicap if you are willing to take the fairly easy step of overclocking them and you save money by doing so.

 

[box]

I see. How would these CPUs fair running something like Flight Sim which utilises CPU more than graphics power? In direct comparison I assume E2XX0 > X2 4800 sckt 939?

 

[semi-pro waster]

It will depend on how much of an overclock you have on them, there are some comparisons around but I don't have any links offhand I'm afraid. If it helps any though it isn't uncommon to get nearing a 100% overclock on the E2XX0 range so 3ghz is quite easily achievable on an E2180 for instance provided you have reasonable supporting components.