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Contracted developer demands obscene hours payment

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by kitkat9933, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. [FnG]magnolia

    Pancake

    Joined: Aug 29, 2007

    Posts: 26,395

    Location: Bees.

    OK, just giving you a potential out from providing an (assumed) professional opinion based on a post on the internet of which you have no prior understanding. Carry on.
     
  2. thenewoc

    Soldato

    Joined: Mar 9, 2012

    Posts: 5,732

    Location: West Sussex, England

    If you decide to pay the £2000 then I'd be careful how you word a letter first asking them to confirm their acceptance of the said offer as full and final settlement and in some way word it that the offer is not being made as any admission of being payable but rather a good will gesture due to the absence of any approved time sheets for the period quoted in your request for payment. And some blah blah about the product not being finished and exhibiting bugs and whether you actually want the source code first before releasing the stated payment.
     
  3. Seearbe

    Gangster

    Joined: Jul 31, 2019

    Posts: 311

    So he's either a lawyer or someone who uses the word "literally" in all the wrong ways. ;)
     
  4. [FnG]magnolia

    Pancake

    Joined: Aug 29, 2007

    Posts: 26,395

    Location: Bees.

    I'll take option B please, Bob, for $100. No professional person of any standing uses those words in that regard.
     
  5. Thecaferacer

    Hitman

    Joined: Feb 3, 2019

    Posts: 747

    the OP can either take the information I have provided, or he can choose not to.

    Just as you can surmise anything you want.
     
  6. [FnG]magnolia

    Pancake

    Joined: Aug 29, 2007

    Posts: 26,395

    Location: Bees.

    The point is that we don't have to surmise because of the words you chose to use. Does it really matter? Probably not. Is it good form? Certainly not. And if you were in a position to use that phrase in any meaningful way, you would know both of these things.
     
  7. touch

    Capodecina

    Joined: Oct 28, 2006

    Posts: 11,398

    Location: Sufferlandria

    We dont have to, but we can! I'm in the middle of surmising about Thecaferacer being an Ally McBeal-esque lawyer ;) It's a great episode going on. I can trust you the full details if you'd like?

    Actually, just realised who I'm talking to. No need to even ask, you're definitely the sort who wants to know all about it. I'm writing the email to you now.
     
  8. Lopéz

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,420

    Location: Leicestershire

    £8.50 an hour?!

    I charge £120 an hour and that's not even coding, it's pure configuration!
     
  9. [FnG]magnolia

    Pancake

    Joined: Aug 29, 2007

    Posts: 26,395

    Location: Bees.

    Films I would watch = this one.
     
  10. kitkat9933

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 26, 2012

    Posts: 3,256

    Location: Manchester

    Seems my business partner cba with the hassle and is just going to pay it.

    to me it was a matter of principal. Lesson learnt don’t mix friends with business... oh well got some new toys today that make the day ok..
     
  11. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,727

    I think next time you want to be a bit clearer re: the deliverables and get it handed over in stages etc... with clear acceptance tests etc...

    I think in a case like this a consultation with a solicitor would have been worthwhile.

    Also paying peanuts with some vague promise of equity is a bit of a naff way of paying for this in the first place. You’re unlikely to get someone competent - unless you’re perhaps going to outsource overseas/remotely and are careful about what you’re getting.

    I don’t think you should have been in a position where you’re several weeks in (I mean how long, calendar wise, did the 400 hours take to accumulate?) and only then discovering he’s a sack of **** and can’t deliver.

    Surely you’d want weekly updates on what has been done and actually review it yourself etc... get him to check in the code and have solved certain tasks and demonstrated the unit tests pass for those stages each week.
     
  12. ColdAsIce

    Mobster

    Joined: May 26, 2006

    Posts: 4,947

    Location: Edinburgh

    Not really great that you were paying your mate just a little over minimum wage to develop an App for you to profit on.
     
  13. wolfie138

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 8, 2013

    Posts: 3,447

    maybe his mate should have asked for more, then?

    and give it seems the mate is a **** programmer who couldn't do what was asked, I wouldn't pay him anything, never mind minimum wage.
     
  14. Dj_Jestar

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 28,703

    Location: Back in East London

    I've trimmed the chaff from your OP and replied below:
    No. It's never too late to raise a dispute. Even if you've already paid them. Expect a long wait and a visit to the small claims court, if it goes that far.
     
  15. Lopéz

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Oct 17, 2002

    Posts: 27,420

    Location: Leicestershire

    That will be a difficult case with no clear deliverables, scope, output, agreed hours etc.

    You say the lesson learned is not to mix friends and business, I don't think that's the case. Learn how to do business.
     
  16. kitkat9933

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 26, 2012

    Posts: 3,256

    Location: Manchester

    Well he wanted 33% equity in addition, so it's a balance.
     
  17. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,727

    33% equity in something worth nothing isn't really all that relevant anymore tbh...

    I'd just start over tbh... and if you're going to bring in someone else then have some weekly meetings, get a bit more oversight re: what they're doing/what they're expecting to do and how they're progressing... I mean how can you let someone you're apparently paying by the hour rack up 400+ hours (presumably over several weeks) without knowing what they did at a more granular level?

    You really need clear specs, deliverables, some acceptance tests etc... break the project down into stages and be prepared to change course.

    I think perhaps you should go read up on some development methodologies. I've never been overly fussy about being overly ridging in adhering to one (some people can be super anal/inflexible with these things) but a lot of the principles behind them are pretty sound (so pick one that works for you, any would be better than your previous approach) because you've gone way too far into the "back of a fag packet" methodology.
     
  18. kitkat9933

    Mobster

    Joined: Aug 26, 2012

    Posts: 3,256

    Location: Manchester

    Just to add, we have the project specifications, deliverables, tests etc on a shared project board. But the bit we didn't have was the agreed payment terms etc with the contractor as it was mates rates or how we would log his hours.
     
  19. dowie

    Caporegime

    Joined: Jan 29, 2008

    Posts: 46,727

    Well it isn't much good if you wait until the end and then get a nasty surprise, much better to get things checked in weekly at least and tested etc... you seem to have a situation where none of it really works and he's holding the code to ransom.
     
  20. agnes

    Capodecina

    Joined: Dec 1, 2006

    Posts: 15,775

    Location: San Francisco, CA

    Not read this all. But, no contract, no invoice, no working product.

    Stop all communication and move on with your life. He hasn't got a single inch of ground to stand on legally. Probably some texts/calls/emails, but even then, he didn't deliver a completed product as discussed.

    You're fine, I'd just ignore it.