Copying Security Keys

[dowie]

Has anyone had to do this before?

Essentially I've got two keys to the door of the building I live in (block of apartments) - I'd like to give a set of keys to my parents, I'd like to give another set of keys to a female friend and I'd like to have a spare set of keys too - this would require 4 sets of keys. Copying the key for my front door isn't an issue however the key for the main door to the building is marked 'do not duplicate'.

Main question is - is it actually illegal to copy these keys (specific laws against it?) or is it just some sort of agreement between lock makers and particular big chain locksmiths. I.e. if not illegal then does anyone know of an independent locksmith in the London area that would copy such a key?

(please don't provide links if this is in fact illegal)

Would also add that I could, of course, contact the management company - I'm sure they've given out multiple copies to the security guards, cleaners etc... however they're generally slow to respond, get quite anal about this stuff and have a tenancy to charge silly admin fee's for any basic requests.

 

[dowie]

Any other suggestions on where I could get these cut/whether it is illegal?

 

[dowie]

Well I'm not going to be giving the keys out to strangers I just want two other sets - I'm trying to find out whether or not it is feasible to get said keys cut easily or am I going to be wasting my time if I try a bunch of locksmiths?

Was hoping there might be someone who has some knowledge of this area?

 

[dowie]

Or he's the type of locksmith who doesn't care, in which case, do you really want him cutting your keys?

Yes, that is exactly what I want, I want to find out whether these sorts of locksmiths are common or if I'd be wasting several hours if I start ringing round or calling in at various places trying to find a guy who will do it.

I do believe it's illegal, I won't suggest you tell the management company that you lost them, they may well charge you the cost of new locks and replacement keys for the entire building.

Do you know if it is illegal or not - apparently it isn't in the US? I'm not going to go to the management company.

Just take it to a key cutting place and get some cut. Worst that can happen is that they'll say they can't and you get to act surprised and try the next key cutting shop.

That is what I'll likely have to do, though if this is likely to be something that I'm almost 99% not going to be able to get done then I'd rather find out now than waste time going round various locksmiths.

 

[dowie]

Although if I was another tenant in the block of flats that someone was wanting to get keys for friends/relatives that don't live there, I would be rather annoyed, as it makes the whol building less secure, just because 1 person can't be bothered to open the door themselves when they're visited.

People have temporarily given their spare set to cleaners and to estate agents before. I already have a spare set I could give out to someone anyway - point is I'd also like to have a spare set locked at my desk at work in the event I lose a set and a spare set at my parent's house.

More importantly: you seem to missing the whole point of having secure keys, by making a whole more to get lost or stolen.

Keeping a set locked at my desk in a secure building and another set at my parent's house isn't actually going to affect security in the real world now is it.

 

[dowie]

I've got two keys already so could already give one out to someone. Having a set at my desk is useful in the event I lose a key - I'll have an extra key on hand - if that set didn't exist I'd still require an extra key but I'd be faced with a delay and extra charges from the management company - all in all what I'm intending to do makes very little difference security wise.

But back on topic if anyone has any answers to the original question rather than trying to debate the morality of copying a key then please do post.

 

[dowie]

I don't really care if my neighbours want an extra key to the front door tbh... its hardly a big deal and I couldn't care less what you think either - you don't live in my building and I've got no idea why you're so concerned about this.

I would however be interested to know if independent locksmiths are likely to copy a key that says 'do not duplicate' on it and whether or not this actually breaks the law?

 

[dowie]

http://www.shoerepairer.info/bb3/vi...sid=2555a89d897b9807ea6a56615b4975f4&start=20 that might help, it would appear that if the blank is available then there is no legal reason they can't cut it, it's just down to the locksmith.

That's useful, thanks. So essentially I won't be breaking the law and the locksmith is only breaking the law if hes within a patent period (either 10 or 20 years according to that thread) - given the building is 10 years old there is a reasonable chance I guess the patent probably doesn't apply any more.

Odds are he will be using one of those simple replica key copy grinding machines, so unless he makes a copy for himself infront of you then he can't make a copy once you've left the shop, plus you'de need to be rather special to give him your address.

Yes, quite.

I guess I'll have to pop into/call a few locksmiths now - I'm assuming the Timpsons near my work probably won't agree to do this....

 

[dowie]

Yes, I'm sure there is a huge risk of a stranger entering as a result of me keeping a copied key locked at my desk at work...

 

[dowie]

yes because I'm sure your desk lock is the bank vault of desk locks and not the cheap 39p pile of crap found in every other drawer.

Irrelevant - its a secure building and there is nothing linking the key to my address - unless you also expect the cleaning lady, who has signed in and is the only one working in that area to then also hack into one of the HR girls computer's and look up my address.

Every adittional key is an additional chance of losing it and an additional opportunity for a stranger to find it and gain access to the building.

Why do you think you only get 2 in the first case?

But I'm not going to be carrying around 2 keys, I'm simply making a copy. If I don't make a copy and I lose one then I'll need to get a copy anyway.... net effect is the same.

Do you own the appartment or do you rent it?

I own it and I own a share of the management company, there are only 7 other flats in the building. We've got a security guard on at evenings and weekends and a cleaner who also has access for the communal areas - some of the other resident's have cleaners for their own apartments who have obvious been given a spare key, another neighbour who was selling his flat must have lent an agent a key.... - I hardly think any of my neighbours would be too bothered if I keep an extra key. I'd guess the larger apartments come with more than two keys - main issue is the agents we appoint to manage the building charge large admin fees for everything (that's another subject entirely)