Crossfire questions.

[ALXAndy]

Well I'm nothing but honest.

Basically I have come into a very large sum of money. Most of it I am giving to my mother so she can get a new washing machine and oven, but I'm left with a nice chunk for myself.

This is 100% disposable money. I could set it alight and it wouldn't really affect my day to day living.

Now I was considering getting a 7970, but it won't really do anything that my Lightning card doesn't. Infact, it won't do anything my lightning card does and that's a fact. However, even if I decided to (which would be really stupid) I would then have a month old Lightning card as a paper weight.

I don't like selling things, so 99% of the time I don't, I simply stuff it all under the bed. Dealing with people annoys me and I don't have much patience.

So, I would like to frivolously waste some money.

After thinking about it for a couple of days I am tempted to get another 6970 Lightning. Again, this is 100% a waste of money and purely for s**ts and giggles. Thus, I have a few questions.

I don't want you to tell me that Crossfire is awesome because I know it isn't. So please, drop that line of thought and just be honest about it.

So, here are the concerns I had, I would prefer if you can answer with experience and not just guess because I could do that myself.

1. Does any one here run Crossfire on a micro ATX board and if so, what are the temps like ?

2. Is it as easy to disable Crossfire and use one card as it is to disable SLI? would it be a royal PITA?

3. Is the TFIII suitable for butting up like that? please remember that the cards will literally become siamese twins. I know with the older Radeons running those horrid blower coolers that it works pretty OK because they can pull air in from the end of the card (the Batmobile bit).

4. What games don't work very well in Crossfire. And by "very well" I mean, what games does it not like and how much aggro is it now? The last time I ran Crossfire I depended on it, and that was stupid so I got rid of it. This time, however, one card alone is more than man enough for the task so I can always disable it, can't I?

Please, if you can, list to me the games that you have had problems with. Be honest.

Thanks !

 

[ALXAndy]

Changed your tune...

Yeah.

I know it's a stupid thing to do, but tbh when I have disposable income it goes.

I don't have any credit cards, no loans, no overdrafts and I only buy what I can afford.

TBH I'm already changing my mind. I don't think I could stand the heat or noise. I would have to crank the Deltas that do the intake and it would get noisy quick.

Yeah, you can disable it pretty easy if it gives you problems. That's why crossfiring higher end cards isn't so bad, as you still have decent performance with just 1 card active.

Just out of interest could you tell me how much it clocks to and the idle temp when you disable it? The problem is that logically it is still there.

It's just the heat man. When I ran the 295s I could stick my feet at the back of the rig and keep them toasty. More heat means you gotta get rid of it, meaning I would need to up the Deltas to audible levels.

As you can see you're wasting your time and money

Spend it on something else instead.

Very true. TBH by tomorrow morning I'll probably have changed my mind. Problem is if I buy anything at all that doesn't either go in or relate to my PC I just never use it.

 

[ALXAndy]

Considering a 580 Classified.

Found one for a good price and they're roughly 10% slower than the 7970 at stock speed. However, it's also 10% cheaper than the 7970.

It's going to be a long couple of days.

 

[ALXAndy]

The problem is it would be like this

And that is too hot to have on all day. I'm leaning more toward the 580 classified tbh. The 7970 is getting more expensive by the day now, and beginning to creep toward the £500 mark.

 

[ALXAndy]

Ooo I thought of another question. Firstly, thanks to those who have answered the ones I had I appreciate that..

Do the 6 series Radeons get hot when you connect more than one display? as I forgot about the Fermi "instant roast" when using more than one and it could be a deal breaker.

 

[ALXAndy]

ALXAndy, why don't you spend a bit of cash on a decent case and full sized mainboard before splashing out on a video card(s) you don't really need??

Because the case is awesome. I've owned pretty much every decent case there is to have, and I like it because it's compact and the cooling is excellent; contrary to what people think.

The motherboard in it is an MSI, so will do 4ghz easy.

I don't want a monstrosity in my house.

 

[ALXAndy]

You've owned every decent case there is to have and yet you thought that contraption was the best out of all of them? Really If you're going to run high end card(s) then why would you not want to give them room to breathe?

Your posts just get more and more bizarre as the days go by, full of contradictions and strange ideas

Hang on a minute. How many Alienwares have you owned?

If that's none then please, don't make comments on things you know absolutely nothing about.

This case, for GPU cooling, is among the best I have ever used.

How could it not be. It has an electronically controlled Delta just over an inch in front of the GPUs drawing air through a scoop in the front. It has a cased duct so that air can not escape, and it blasts straight past the GPU exhausting heat out of the back.

When I say I don't want more heat I mean, I don't want more heat - period. You know? what goes up and all that. Basically that heat has to go somewhere and it's usually into my 2.5x3m room and turns it into a sauna.

 

[ALXAndy]

I agree coupe his logic is baffling at times. According to him a gtx580 classified comes in 10% cheaper than a 7970 but its still £500 on this site. I dont know what price hes getting it for though but i know from ocuk theres at least 2 7970's cheaper than £500. The 7970 is a much better buy when you get into this kind of money bracket imho. I would not want to go crossfire or sli with that case.

I would bank the money and see what prices are like in a month or 2 for both the gtx580 and 7970.

I can get one for £440 if I don't want to wait, or, *calculates* £358.75 if I don't mind waiting 10 days.

As for the 7970? well, there have been numerous rumours that there are arguments happening with AMD and vendors over price. How is it that I could find a VTX 7970 on launch day for £420, yet others are pushing £500?

Furthermore, why are the prices rising already?

That's the kind of gouging skank I really want nothing to do with.

 

[ALXAndy]

Yeah I may do that. I saw that card you posted for £420 on release day.

I know OCUK are usually slightly more expensive but they do have their specials Will leave it for now I think.

 

[ALXAndy]

Thanks Tommy. I'm 100% decided against Crossfire.

I bit the bullet a few days ago and bought the first TV I have owned in the UK in 12 years. Well, I have been back in the UK for closing in on four years but always used a media PC. I really liked the idea of the TVs now though as they have USB sockets which pretty much make them do everything a media PC can do without the power consumption.

Sooo, Ideally I want to output to the TV aswell.

With Crossfire ruled out (had a long think about it and I really don't want to go back there tbh) and the GTX 580 ruled out (as it turns into a toaster when you add a second display) that pretty much limits it to the 7970.

The thing is, I just don't think it's worth the asking price right now.

Ugh, I dunno. Computers eh?

 

[ALXAndy]

I have SSDs

I really can't wait for this winter to be over man. One of the poo things about living a mile from the seafront. Winter is dead, and if you go outside the wind cuts you a new one

 

[ALXAndy]

Ah yes, I'm sorry, I stand corrected, I totally forgot Alienware were considered such a premium brand in high end computer chassis.

I'm presuming your Alienware case is also considerably better than, I dunno let's say a Silverstone FT02B? what with it's electronically controlled Delta fans and all........

So I take that as a no then? you've never owned one?

Thought so.

So basically it comes down to the fact that you don't like Alienware. I mean sheesh, at least be honest and say you just don't like the look, or the company, or that rich kids spend their parents' life savings on them without even realising what it is they're buying.

GPU cooling is taken care of as I said by this. A 5900 or so RPM Delta fan.

It draws air in via the front, which is a large open duct. Then, you close off the ducts so that the air is drawn in and goes directly past the GPU, forcing all the hot air out of the back.

Then you have a thermal management system like this, which is all PIC controlled.

You simply set all of the fans to a specific setting (say 20% on all) and save the profile. Then it's just a hot key. So for example I am playing a game, GPUs are starting to get hot, press a programmed macro key on my KB, airflow up.


As micro ATX cases go (infact tbh I prefer them any way as they can pressurise the air more than a London Underground case (see - Corsair 800D)

The motherboard is an SLI/RAID etc MSI affair. It's basically the same identical layout and config as a Rampage Gene is it? the X58 micro by Asus.

I don't have room in here for a large case and nor would I want one. Been there, seen it, had some awful cases. That includes a Temjin, a Corsair 800D, a Bitfenix Survivor (which wasn't bad one you take out the hard drive rack) and so on.

For air cooling it's as good as it needs to be, ever.

So, unless you are "trolling" is it they call it? stop going on about it.

I didn't ask about what case I should switch to, nor what motherboard I should get. This board will drive the 950 to 4.2ghz and has every option I could possibly need. The power supply is an 875w 80+ Silver Newton labs unit, so again is more than I could ever need.

BTW I tell you what's great. People who hate Alienware. I love it, really makes me laugh. If they were so poor and as bad as all of the people who have never had one say then they would have gone out of business years ago. Fact is they haven't and, Dell saw them as such a threat they bought them out for millions of dollars. And they're still here. So they must be doing something right.

Save the money and get an awesome new computer when kepler and ivybridge launch. I am tempted to buy upgrades all the time but i try to fight it...

I've considered it tbh. Could easily afford the Maximus Gene (£150) and a 2600k and 8gb ram. Thing is the 950 is more than good enough for gaming.

 

[ALXAndy]

Gotta say, having spent the best part of 5.5k on an my current Alienware rig i

Was I asked how much I paid for mine? That's the thing, people just assume.

I bought a rig last November and had saved up for it for ages. (2010)

Foxconn Bloodrage GTI, I7 950 etc.

Turned out the motherboard had bent pins and it never worked properly. Up until that point I had used Alienware for years. However, I've never bought one from Alienware.

In February I bought a brand new shrink wrapped chasis, 875w psu (80+ silver) and a X58 SLI/CF micro for £300 delivered.

At that time the Rampage Gene was selling for £230 or so IIRC, so it was a deal.

The one I wrapped in white vinyl was bought for £140 and a Xbox 360 elite (the old one). All I had to add was memory (AVF, £30 for a 6gb kit) and my two GTX 295s which pretty much owe me nothing, and I have it sold for £750.

See, that's the part that people miss. Resell value.

You can build a PC and be more proud of it than anything else you've ever done. However, come to sell it? chances are that some one else will not find your unique taste suitable and thus you will have to break it down and sell it in parts which you certainly won't make money out of.

It's the same with Apple products. People **** them off left right and centre, but fact is they actually hold onto some of their value. Self built PCs? you may as well set your money on fire.

I don't hate the company, but I know what I got for my money in terms of product and service, as such I do think most of the criticisms are well justified. As you say, they're still around so they must be doing something right, you just can't argue when people say they got similar or better spec for much less cost.

They don't get it right all of the time. No one does.

Thing is, people who build PCs automatically assume that every other human being that walks the face of the earth -

Can.

Wants to pick peanuts out of the poo to save money.

Sometimes I just can't be bothered with the aggro tbh. I mean when I worked managing a computer repair store in the late 90s (when they were all over the place) I used to have to build 13-15 cheap crappy PCs a day. It got old, fast. Thus, I used Apples. Imacs... I had a carbon DV for watching films etc and a regular one for doing all of my graphical stuff I do as a hobby. Quite simply it was because I had quite had enough faffing around all day at work fighting with Windows Multiple Errors (ME) and all of the conflicts and other nonsense PCs suffer with. Yet, I was, to those who build PCs "An idiot who over paid for a slow computer".

Trust me when I say I have seen it all. People plugging a 12v 2 pin power wire from a PSU (for a fan) into the back of a CDRW when attempting to fit it themselves "Hey this wire must go somewhere !". It set the IDE cable on fire.

I've seen people put mounting posts in the wrong places, shorting out the board. I even saw a guy hold his motherboard directly onto the tray with bin ties (those plastic metal things). Needless to say he blew a £900 pile of parts sky high.

Then you have the "But if one part doesn't work" problem. Let's say (and I've seen this also) you have a CPU with bad cache on it. However, it could be the memory ! it could be the PSU ! it could be anything.

Without a complete set of spare parts how do you know?

So yes, that's the argument "Against" building your own PC.

 

[ALXAndy]

I agree with you. I've had times in the past when I've bought branded machines simply because I did not have the time or patience to dick around a computer. You can get better value for money in terms of components building it yourself. But sometimes your time is worth a lot more than that.

1000% that ^

You're dead right. Time is money. Not only that but if I'm completely honest working in a computer shop utterly ruined my love of them. I also worked in the sound industry building and designing speakers for Swisstone Electronics (AKA Rogers). They made speakers for the BBC costing thousands of pounds. Audio is another passion of mine.

However, all that did was ruin my love for it. You become so stuffed with all of the goodness, so bloated, that it takes the fun out of it

Alienware do have plus sides. They're not hideously expensive.

IE - if you go to any one any where and buy a fully built PC they're not that wide of the mark. Compared to companies like Falcon Northwest, the now defunct Voodoo (well, HP pwn them) and the new Origin (set up by all the ex Alienware staff) Alienwares are positively cheap.

And contrary to belief not every one wants the aggro or stress of building a PC. One wrong part and you're screwed and returning it is a nightmare.

If you've been out of the loop for a while building a new PC is really very daunting. You have to work out what motherboard you need, what CPU, what memory, dual channel triple channel (you'd be amazed just how many people went X58 and used dual channel !) and so on.

 

[ALXAndy]

ALXAndy, I'm honestly not trolling I'm merely stuggling to understand how you expect people to believe that this is the best case since sliced bread? I mean seriously just take a peek at that cheap plastic finish, it looks downright hideous! And I'd hate to hear that 5900RPM Delta fan going hell for leather, it must make a right racket!

It's as loud or as quiet as you want it to be. If the Deltas went all out all of the time then yeah, it would be a problem.

As for that "plastic monstrosity".

The case, when empty, weighs 25 kilos. The sides are triple walled. This is what I meant when I said earlier that I have had cases by all other manus and none come close. And I stand firm with that comment. I have owned a Silverstone Temjin and the circular vent holes in the hard drive bay were not rounded. I CUT MYSELF ON A £150 case. That is absolutely and utterly unacceptable.

I had a Bitfenix Survivor that I got from this website. It was so cheap and flimsy the case would warp and I could not get my PCIE cards to line up. I had to bend all of my back plates.

So as I say, Alienwares are built like absolute nuclear bunkers. The finish on them is powder coat, and they're not cheap finishes either. The "black" one is actually satin powdercoat in three layers. Layer one is black, layer two is this stuff

And then it's coated in satin. None of that comes cheap.

So, what is there to criticise? the wiring. It's a mess. They really ought to have done a better job on that. But. That doesn't matter. Form wise the wiring is all perfectly held in place and routed out of the way of the cooling, and the case does not have side windows so it's all a bit pointless making it tidy.

I've also owned Lian Lis. Yeah, they look nice. However, every time I worked on mine I would end up knocking it over on account of it weighing about the same as a jam sandwich. Not for me.

And how many of those have a crushingly simple to use thermal system? none? I really don't fancy spending five minutes turning knobs to set all my fans, then when I am done gaming do it all again.

So with the quality questions answered it simply comes down to whether or not you like the aesthetics. If you don't ? fair play to you. Personally I absolutely and utterly hate those enormous big square boxes full of mesh, but that's me.

There's the board. Look at the writing I've underlined in red. Typical MSI serial number, and one of the driver set up apps comes up MSI when you install it.

 

[ALXAndy]

It's an Alienware badged MSI X58 affair.

Spec wise it's identical to the Rampage Gene.