Daft question on copper & fiber

Siliconslave · 17 Aug 2016 at 09:37

Hey guys,

we have fiber to the cabinet in our village BUT unfortunately due to the overhead cable routing were about 2.5km away from the exchange meaning were only getting around 2.6mb on a fiber connection.

Plusnet seem to think we're getting a faster speed because we're on fiber, but to my mind that makes no sense. Surely the connection to the exchange for ADSL should still be over that 2.5MB rate, so the bottleneck is in the copper between there and our house.

I'm loathed to downgrade and get a slower speed, but also get the feeling i'm getting ripped off with fiber.

What do you think?

Stelly · 17 Aug 2016 at 09:43

Yes mate, you have it correct, I had the same issue in my old house.

Stelly

#Chri5# · 17 Aug 2016 at 10:03

How far are you from the FTTC cabinet, not the exchange?

Also, do you mean 2.5 Megabytes/second or 2.5 Megabits/second (Mbps)?

Stelly · 17 Aug 2016 at 10:42

#Chri5# said:
How far are you from the FTTC cabinet, not the exchange?

Also, do you mean 2.5 Megabytes/second or 2.5 Megabits/second (Mbps)?

I thought that is what he meant

Stelly

MissChief · 17 Aug 2016 at 11:13

As said, on DSL its distance to the exchange that matters. On FTTC it's distance from the cabinet that's important.

ov_sjo · 17 Aug 2016 at 11:33

Put your phone number into the BT wholesale checker and it'll give you an estimate.

MissChief · 17 Aug 2016 at 14:53

ov_sjo said:
Put your phone number into the BT wholesale checker and it'll give you an estimate.

Http://dslchecker.bt.com

Siliconslave · 17 Aug 2016 at 18:02

sorry for the confusion, 2.5ish km from the fiber cabinate, not sure on the distance to the exchange.

and 2.6 Mb - Mega bytes...

so this would suggest that i'm not going to get anything about 0.5-1 Mbs on ADSL? Nuts might just have to stump up the extra for Fiber after all

nutcase · 17 Aug 2016 at 19:46

Mega bits not bytes. That's all I can bring to this thread apart from sympathies.

Orcvader · 17 Aug 2016 at 20:02

Wow, the cabinet itself must be not that far from the exchange at all.

You can use this to see how far you are from the exchange: https://www.samknows.com/broadband/broadband_checker

I'm guessing Virgin is not even close to your area?

MissChief · 17 Aug 2016 at 22:39

Siliconslave said:
sorry for the confusion, 2.5ish km from the fiber cabinate, not sure on the distance to the exchange.

and 2.6 Mb - Mega bytes...

so this would suggest that i'm not going to get anything about 0.5-1 Mbs on ADSL? Nuts might just have to stump up the extra for Fiber after all

Ouch. That is quite possibly the worst fibre estimates I've ever seen.

G.Fast is being trialled in some areas and there are also trials for Long Range FTTC which should improve things but it could be 2-3 years before it becomes commercially available.

Caged · 18 Aug 2016 at 00:10

You probably won't even be able to place an FTTC order with most of the mainstream ISPs if the estimated sync speeds are that.

Siliconslave · 18 Aug 2016 at 08:11

Caged said:
You probably won't even be able to place an FTTC order with most of the mainstream ISPs if the estimated sync speeds are that.

I've already got a Fiber line with plusnet at the moment, not great, but it works. Best bit was the original estimate before we moved, and even when we signed up, put it at 45Mb :mad:

There is a local wireless system that leases lines and puts transmitters on local churches to give upto 10Mb, but i've heard some horror stories about the reliability - still might have to bite the bullet and try that instead

the G.Fast stuff only looks to help on very short cabinate to property loops - hopeing for a proper last mile solution that doesn't rely on coper wires...

Steveocee · 18 Aug 2016 at 08:30

Siliconslave said:
There is a local wireless system that leases lines and puts transmitters on local churches to give upto 10Mb, but i've heard some horror stories about the reliability - still might have to bite the bullet and try that instead

i work at a WISP and generally I say to our prospective customers that reliability and speed are going to be far better than the copper alternative. A lot of times response time is actually better over our network than it is over copper as well due to the poor condition of the copper.

FTTRn (fiber to the remote node) is being trialled and it's terrifying seeing so much fibre on BT poles that as of yet isn't being used but know it will be soon but thats another story.

I wouldn't feel put out by going for a fixed wireless link as if the company uses the correct kit and doesn't contend you then you will have a great solid connection.

My personal connection at home runs over WISP and I have no noticeable down time within the last 4 weeks. My PPP sessions last on average 2 days however a drop and reconnect takes 10 seconds at most. I pay for a 20Mb down 1Mb up connection and ALWAYS get that result, response times are as below;

steve@ubuntu-server:~$ ping bbc.co.uk
PING bbc.co.uk (212.58.244.22) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=1 ttl=54 time=9.68 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=2 ttl=54 time=9.51 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=3 ttl=54 time=10.0 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=4 ttl=54 time=10.2 ms
64 bytes from 212.58.244.22: icmp_seq=5 ttl=54 time=13.9 ms
^C
--- bbc.co.uk ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4005ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 9.514/10.676/13.933/1.648 ms

The other plus side of using a WISP is that it's done on line of sight so usually companies are local so if you do have a problem you can call them and speak to them rather than a call centre off shore.

Caged · 18 Aug 2016 at 19:14

On the flip side a lot of WISPs are small businesses with all of the issues that come with that. There are no real blanket statements that can be made about fixed wireless providers - and while some are no doubt running on well designed networks and receive the proper investment, there will be some that were founded as a result of a used car salesman having an idea in a pub.

Steveocee · 19 Aug 2016 at 08:27

Caged said:
On the flip side a lot of WISPs are small businesses with all of the issues that come with that. There are no real blanket statements that can be made about fixed wireless providers - and while some are no doubt running on well designed networks and receive the proper investment, there will be some that were founded as a result of a used car salesman having an idea in a pub.

Very true, I'm lucky enough to be behind a huge network with prominent sites and excellent investment to grow the network (we have amazing goals for 2017).

I do know about a few "fag packet" companies trying to do this and they disappear as fast as they appear.

BigT · 22 Aug 2016 at 14:43

I feel for you. I'm in the same boat being 2km from the cabinet and can only receive 5/1 on FTTC - I never thought I'd see lower from someone else. Our local wireless provider doesn't have line of sight to my house either so the only mainstream alternatives are 4G (patchy and capped) or satellite (laggy and capped). Realistically our main angle is as a village to petition Kent County Council to get Openreach to put a cabinet in our village. or band together to have one done ourselves through a community scheme.

Worth nothing that because the rudimentary speed checkers give such low expectations for fibre that many ISPs won't offer you it. BT do and brand it 'faster broadband' and so do Vodafone but that's about it I found. I assume Plusnet being part of the BT Group fit into that but its worth bearing in mind when you come to switch providers.

Don't get put on ADSL though. We did, by mistake from BT, and I got 112kbps down stream for a week. It was like living in 1998 again.

Siliconslave · 22 Aug 2016 at 15:51

yer, going onto vodafone from plusnet at the moment, had the 6months free broadband out of them before they put the line rental price up so defecting to Voda...

Market A prices are bad enough, let alone when you get no bandwidth rolled in, still £25 on vodafone is (slightly) easier to stomach than £40 on plusnet (an no, i can't get any of the nice cashback offers on bt or the like)