Damp Proofing - do I pay for it all?

Merlin5

Merlin5

Merlin5

Soldato
Joined
17 Aug 2009
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Finchley, London
Hey guys, I'm going to be getting things under way to get my lease extended and then sell the flat. Mine is the ground floor flat in a house built in the 1900's. I had a damp proof course done in 1987 but it's well past it's expiry. I will go into more detail later as I'm going out now for an hour or so, and do some photos tomorrow in daylight of a problem. I don't know if I have rising damp or isolated penetration of moisture through the bricks, but there's a problem with a small patch and wetness on an outside wall in my kitchen.

But my main question for now is, if I need to get a new DPC, can I get the guy who owns the flat above (he's a buy to let owner) to share the costs?

Recently, I had to share the cost with him for something broken on the roof, after all, we both need a solid roof over our heads. Likewise, we both need solid foundations for our flats, and any rising damp could presumably impact on his flat. So is he entitled/obliged to share the costs?
 
Isn't this an issue for the freeholder to sort out and then all leaseholders will contribute? Same as if the roof needed replacing etc.?
 
The upstairs is owned by a buy to let person who bought it from the previous owner about 3 years ago. It's currently rented out to tenants.
He and I are both leaseholders and we both pay the freeholders ground rent.

If I get the freeholder involved in sorting out a DPC, it'll undoubtedly cost a lot more because I've had dealings with them and they're sharks. The guy who owns the flat above knows plenty of people in the business and would be a lot cheaper.

But from what you guys have said, it does seem that it's 50/50 split for a new DPC?
 
I've taken some photos to see if anyone call help identify the problem.







In 2012 I had lots of work done. Patio dug out and a metal slatted gully fitted for water drainage and keeping it away from the kitchen wall. Also, a sand and cement plinth along the bottom of the brickwork. In the kitchen itself, the walls were taken right back to the brickwork, sand and cemented and plastered. The hole you see in the photo is the problem. It has never dried properly and material crumbled. My builder then filled it with sand and cement again about a year ago and last night I poked around and it came away easily. What you see on the hole now is all quite solid, although in the centre to the left there's still some slimy cement. The rest of the wall either side, above and below is solid. Which makes me wonder if it's not rising damp but penetration in some other way.


Looking at this picture outside,



I've circled in yellow the approximate position of the hole indoors, which is directly opposite the drainpipe. The drainpipe is new. I had the outside walls pointed and filled and don't see any holes or feel any damp on the outside wall. The drain admittedly does get clogged and I generally clear it away. But could the drain itself be the issue?
 
Does your lease allow you to carry out such extensive work without notification, let alone permission from your freeholder?
 
I misplaced the copy of the lease years ago and would need to get another from the freeholder. I don't see why not though. The place needed work badly.
 
looks strange to me that the damp is coming out where the cable feeds the socket,
is the cable actually in the wall or been feed through the cavity and the damp wicking that way?
looks like at some stage someoutside work was done at somestage by the look of the new bricks, the cavity could be full of rubble etc.
If it was mine I'd take off some more render below the socket and the skirting off and may be a brickout to check the cavity and any signs inside it to see where the damps coming from.
 
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lude1962 said:
looks strange to me that the damp is coming out where the cable feeds the socket,
is the cable actually in the wall or been feed through the cavity and the damp wicking that way?
looks like at some stage someoutside work was done at somestage by the look of the new bricks, the cavity could be full of rubble etc.
If it was mine I'd take off some more render below the socket and the skirting off and may be a brickout to check the cavity and any signs inside it to see where the damps coming from.
Click to expand...

There is no way hat wall has a cavity!

Two many options here I'm afraid but the flaking paint below the socket does imply that it is more than a localised problem. Get a few companies round to give you an assessment, although if you are just doing it for sale you could always bodge it and scarper you certainly wouldn't be the first to touch it all up so it looks nice leaving the problem hidden for the next owner.

I would expect the costs for a damp proof course to be shared with upstairs I wouldn't however expect the costs for putting right any botched works you have had done to be shared so it could be a very interesting argument if you like that sort of thing!
 
Looking at the brick pattern I think that's a Sussex bond so it's a solid wall.

Those bottom three layers look a bit like engineering brick? Which means whoever did the DPC is a moron. Which might also imply that they didn't drill the masonry joints, just the brick.

That concrete sill looks permanently wet enough to grow algae which might mean the ground is permanently wet too.
It might be a cracked drain which is keeping the soil wet. You'd need to dig around the drain to confirm.
 
a1ex2001 said:
There is no way hat wall has a cavity!

Two many options here I'm afraid but the flaking paint below the socket does imply that it is more than a localised problem. Get a few companies round to give you an assessment, although if you are just doing it for sale you could always bodge it and scarper you certainly wouldn't be the first to touch it all up so it looks nice leaving the problem hidden for the next owner.

I would expect the costs for a damp proof course to be shared with upstairs I wouldn't however expect the costs for putting right any botched works you have had done to be shared so it could be a very interesting argument if you like that sort of thing!
Click to expand...

That rough white patch above the skirting and under the socket is hardened tetrion that's been stuck on, I don't know if that's the bit you mean?
When you say get a few companies around, do you mean damp proof companies? I had some expert from Peter Cox Preservation look at my place about a year ago, and was recommended to get their special DPC treatment done. I didn't actually get it done, I wasn't sure if he was just trying to sell or knew for sure that's what I needed. But yeah, I just want to get it presentable to sell. I could get my builder to do a bodge job and hope it doesn't start crumbling within a few weeks. But presumably any buyer will have a surveyor pick up on rising damp if it's there. Whether that would cost me more in having to reduce my selling price than me getting it done now, I don't know.


bitslice said:
Looking at the brick pattern I think that's a Sussex bond so it's a solid wall.

Those bottom three layers look a bit like engineering brick? Which means whoever did the DPC is a moron. Which might also imply that they didn't drill the masonry joints, just the brick.

That concrete sill looks permanently wet enough to grow algae which might mean the ground is permanently wet too.
It might be a cracked drain which is keeping the soil wet. You'd need to dig around the drain to confirm.
Click to expand...

It's a solid wall, yeah. I hope it is something simple like a cracked drain.
Well, I'm going to be getting in touch with a solicitor that specialises in lease extensions and they'll send a surveyor round. I assume the surveyor might be able to help identify the problem.
 
When it was taken back to brick you should have just K11'ed the wall/s in the kitchen. Taking it back and replastering hasn't solved a thing.
 
Merlin5 said:
I misplaced the copy of the lease years ago and would need to get another from the freeholder. I don't see why not though. The place needed work badly.
Click to expand...

You should try to get a copy of the solicitor who did your sale. I know mine doesn't let me touch the "bricks and mortar" so to speak, and I have a ground floor flat.
 
I've no idea what the walls were plastered with as my builder did it, but I do know there was waterproofing stuff in it.

I've instructed specialist lease extension solicitors today, ones that were recommended to me last May by a member from this forum. They're sending a chartered surveyor round to value the lease extension and my flat. And the solicitors will be getting hold of the lease. I've improved the property, so the freeholders would be happy I'd imagine. Maybe the surveyor can give me an idea of what the problem is with the hole.
 
If the house was built in 1900 then it is possible it might have been originally built using lime mortar.

From the photos it looks like it has been recently re-pointed with cement mortar. If the original construction used Lime then this will have ****ed it up basically!

If it has been plastered internally with cement over lime, this will have ****ed it up too!

(Think the building equivalent of mixing cross-ply and radial tyres! the two types of mortar are not compatible)

Fist thing I would do is chip away the new pointing to get a sample of the underlying mortar and get it analysed. If it it turns out to be Lime then you are going to have one hell of a job on your hands!
 
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