David Cameron, Tory Education Policy & Wikipedia

[Shackley]

The beginning of the Wikipedia entry for David Cameron includes the following comment

He read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford . . .

David Cameron is the leader of the Conservative Party, he may be the next British Prime Minister and could be responsible for education policy in the UK. His Shadow Education Secretary David Willetts has recently suggested that Tory policy on Grammar Schools is likely to change - David Cameron has not disagreed with this.

David Cameron was privately educated at great expense at Eton College. I believe that it is very important that readers of Wikipedia should be aware that a man who seems to be opposed to non fee-paying selective education was privately educated at the most expensive secondary school in the UK.

For this reason, I have added details of David Cameron's educational background to the beginning of his entry on Wikipedia. Each time I do so, someone removes the references to Eton from the start of the entry on him.

Sooner or later I will get blocked from editing the entry, could I ask any public spirited souls out there to make a point of checking this entry from time to time as follows

He went to school at [[Heatherdown Preparatory School]] in Winkfield, Berkshire and at [[Eton College]] before going on to read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford

 

[Shackley]

There's a whole section on his education lower down?

Indeed there is - lower down.

I think it was removed because nobody usually cares about education before Uni. Especially not on a brief summary...

Perhaps not, except that what I am talking about here is his policies on Secondary Education, not on Universities. His having attended Eton seems pretty relevant, n'est pas?

As I said, "I have added details of David Cameron's educational background to the beginning of his entry on Wikipedia."

 

[Shackley]

Holy generalisation batman. I happen to love my Father, and he's as nice a person as you could hope to meet.

Quite right too, I would hope that you have the same feeling of affection for your Mother.

However, the fact that you love your Father, who was perhaps educated at Eton, Dulwich or Rugby and who I am sure is a very nice person, doesn't mean that he has a "balanced view of life" or that he is representative of many people who were educated at Public School


ps - Many thanks to whoever may just have corrected David Cameron's entry on Wikipedia

 

[Shackley]

Whatever happened to Neutral Point of View for wiki articles?

Whatever is not neutral about mentioning that David Cameron was educated at Eton

He was, wasn't he and so far as I am aware, he doesn't deny it.

 

[Shackley]

David Cameron has annoyed me. What on earth is wrong with elitism?

Clever children should go to school with clever people. Common sense.

I suspect that David Cameron believes that there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with elitism - for the wealthy.

 

[Shackley]

Wikipedia works by first presenting an outline of the document to follow
. . .
It is also common practice for those who have been educated at University that when briefly talking about their education history to only refer to their degree title and from which institution it was gained.

Fair enough, so WTF is the comment that David Cameron so impressed his [unnamed] tutor that he allegedly chose to describe Cameron as "one of the ablest students" he had ever taught doing at the beginning of the entry?

What is the source for this piece of blatant puffery?

 

[Shackley]

Been reverted already Is there some Oxford old boy tory sitting at a computer somewhere vehemently removing all criticism of his beloved Cameron?

Probably . . . may be his Eton Fag

I can't seem to edit it. I click 'save' and it just keeps processing the request forever.

It just takes time, probably because the server is busy and Wikipedia makes a backup copy. Don't give up - but no vandalism, it is pointless.

 

[Shackley]

Well raise a discussion to have it removed then, don't militantly edit the entry to your liking. Wikipedia is a collaborative environment.

What a VERY good idea, thank you for that; as it happens, I have already done so. However, it doesn't really stop Conservative Central Office monitoring his Wikipedia entry 24/7 and simply removing any factual but undesired amendments.


The gist of my argument is that Cameron's attendance at Eton College is very significant in terms of his elitist and discriminatory ideas on education. It has a great deal to do with his political viewpoint.

To quote from later entries in Wikipedia

The Guardian has accused Cameron of relying on, "the most prestigious of old-boy networks in his attempt to return the Tories to power", pointing out that three members of his shadow cabinet and 15 members of his front bench team are "Old Etonians".

Similarly, The Sunday Times has commented that "David Cameron has more Etonians around him than any leader since Macmillan" and asked whether he can "represent Britain from such a narrow base."

Cabinet minister Hazel Blears has said of Cameron "You have to wonder about a man who surrounds himself with so many people who went to the same school. I’m pretty sure I don’t want 21st-century Britain run by people who went to just one school"

In the circumstances, it seems entirely proper to me that mention of Cameron's having attended the most exclusive, expensive, elitist secondary school in the country should appear at the beginning of the entry on him - do you disagree, and if so, why?

 

[Shackley]

If you really need a reason for a lack of class shift within ones life I rather prefer the concept that people's dreams tend to be curved by the social standing of their parents - nothing to do with schools. If a kid grows up around doctors, lawyers and entrepreneurs then this will, in very general terms, be where his or her career goal is aimed at. A child who is born in a small mining town, whose parents work in an assembly factory will likely set their horizons much lower.

Very reasonable analysis.

However, when faced with this truth, it is perhaps worth considering whether this is desirable; whether it offers the greatest opportunity for innate ability to be translated into development or whether it simply magnifies the effect of inbreeding.

I would suggest that education may help to overcome this barrier to development and that selective education (e.g. Grammar Schools) will offer greater opportunities for social mobility and the future of the country as a whole than such academic institutions as Eton College.

Perhaps this is why Cameron is not that keen on Grammar Schools which select by ability rather than on the basis of the social standing or wealth of one's parents?

 

[Shackley]

Because it's something they can't have.

To what is this supposed to be an answer?

Is it in some way meant to relate to the (somewhat convoluted) comment:

Few would question that private health care is a bad thing per se - so why are some so negative at private schools?

Incidentally, the purpose of this thread was to highlight the hypocrisy of David Cameron's failure to distance himself from David Willetts' suggestion that Grammar Schools do not assist with social mobility and to show the way that the Wikipedia entry on David Cameron is monitored and maintained to ensure that nothing should suggest that he is anything other than youthful, sincere, wonderful, in-touch and a breath of fresh air.

It is all very reminiscent of the way that Bliar was presented in 1997. Why the Conservatives have even got their own version of Alastair Campbell in the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson

 

[Shackley]

Hasn't Cameron already said that he backed existing grammar schools?

Hardly a ringing endorsement of selective education based on ability or reassuring to the few existing Grammar Schools I suspect.

Hasn't Willetts already quit because of his comments?

Not that I am aware of, do you have any independent confirmation of this terrific news?

 

[Shackley]

Sorry for being unclear - no I wasn't saying you were 'owned', but rather the people who **** off private education because, as you put it, it's 'something they can't have' are.

GD never has serious discussions - that's what SC's for - so thought I'd lighten the mood.

Dismal failure frankly . . . . .

 

[Shackley]

No one cares about his secondary education. I see no reason why it should be included in his introduction. It will not add anything worthwhile to the article. There is also in in-depth section dedicated to his education, including his time at Eton.

Wikipedia is not a place to preach your political views.

It should be reserved for Conservative Central Office to spin then, should it?

 

[Shackley]

I'm sorry but what you think of the Conservative Party really is neither here nor there as far as Wikipedia is concerned. It's trying to be an Encyclopedia, not a democracy or an arbitary source of opinions, research and information.

You, along with others, rather seem to be missing the point. As you rightly observer, what I think of the Conservative Party really is neither here nor there as far as Wikipedia is concerned.

However, to suggest that Cameron's attendance at the most expensive, elite private school in the country is not significant in terms of his elitist and discriminatory ideas on the education of the masses is bizarre, dishonest or both. It has a great deal to do with his political viewpoint. It should be mentioned prominently by Wikipedia and probably would be if it weren't for the eternal vigilance of Conservative spin doctors trying to portray Cameron as a man in touch with the majority - he isn't.


Incidentally, what do you imply when you suggest that "Wikipedia is not a source of information."

 

[Shackley]

. . . with Cameron backing current Grammar schools . . .

Has he done that? I certainly wasn't aware of that, can you point me to any reports that Cameron actually backs current Grammar schools rather than is keeping his mouth shut about them after David Willetts criticised them and said quite unequivocally that he was opposed to selection based on academic ability?

The biggest issue, as far as I see it, against having it in the introduction is that this only has the potential to affect one thing - his thoughts on education.

That's it, is it? Other than his "thoughts on education" you are suggesting that going to Eton has had no effect at all on Cameron's attitude to life and the world are you?

 

[Shackley]

Is over 300 words in the second section of the article after the intro and contents not prominent enough?

Not in my opinion, no, it is not prominent enough.

Inserting the nine words "went to school at Eton before going on to" between "He" and "read" at the beginning would do nicely. It seems far more relevant than the comment that one of his tutors thought him and "one of the ablest students he has taught" which is also repeated further down.

 

[Shackley]

In his reply, Mr Cameron thanked Mr Brady for his work, and said it had never been policy to undermine existing grammar schools, since the leadership "support them".

The Tory leader was infuriated when Mr Brady released figures suggesting overall educational standards were higher in areas with grammar schools. Guardian Link

Now why would Cameron be "infuriated" that Graham Brady, the Conservative shadow Europe minister had released information which appears to be accurate?

What can Dave (supportive of Grammar Schools) be trying to spin