DC2 vs. RX8

[MikeHiow]

I'm 23, with a baby due in the next few weeks.

Once I've settled after baby gets here, I'm going to buy Lauren a car she actually wants, then get rid of the ST and buy something I really want (most probably the RX8).

I understand I've hypothesised about so many different options on here, but its the RX8 I keep coming back to.

 

[MikeHiow]

Is it dim-day or something?!

He is saying he wants a 4 door saloon - the RX8 - but cannot. I'm saying, dont worry about it, get it, and enjoy it. I fail to see 'irony' in that statement at all.

Well, technicalities aside, its not a 4 door saloon - its a 2+2(*.5) coupé, and as such offers just a small improvement in practicality over any other coupé.

They have announced the end of the RX8 - I believe it was the first to go as a result of the Euro 5. I don't know the exact details, but I doubt they are still making them.

 

[MikeHiow]

So one of the best RX8 features is an engine with fuel consumption completely disproportionate to it's power output, a tenancy to flood, comical oil consumption and some very, very serious reliability concerns?

Putting such an awful engine in an otherwise good car doesn't make sense, that's for sure. I've driven and owned enough cars that don't "feel" fast but they were still good cars, the RX8 is massively let down by the choice of rotary engine. The engine doesn't have any redeeming features at all. You might bleat on about how smooth it is but so is a 6 cylinder BMW and they don't drink oil, get low teen mpg and flood when you reverse out of your garage and switch the engine off.

Yes, exactly. What you fail to realise is that half the reason this car is so good is because of that engine. Because it is so small, it can be mounted so far back and so low down - which is what allows the car to remain so balanced.

The rotary is like Marmite, but rather than like you either 'get' it, or you don't, and no - a BMW 6 pot is no where near as smooth as a rotary, as yes a BMW 6 pot does use oil.

On the subject of oil, yes it uses oil - about 1 litre per 1-2000 miles, but then the Rotary engine does not require synthetic oils, therefore oil doesn't cost nearly as much as you'd usually be used to. This is something very few people consider when slating the oil consumption of the RX8.

Flooding isn't really a concern unless you are careless and it really is restricted to the engine running for seconds from cold - a mile journey down the road to the shop isn't going to start giving you flooding issues.

To me, the low fuel consumption and the oil consumption is a price I'd be willing to pay to own one. Considering you can pick up a 6 year old sports car, with great equipment levels and that handles fantastically for just £5k (which by comparison is what a 12 year old Honda costs), is the fuel consumption really that great a concern?

 

[MikeHiow]

It isn't all about weight distribution - although it does help. The Mazda isn't that far off 50/50 (according to you) while remaining 150kg lighter - I guess you could make it 50/50 with some balast, and still keep it lighter than either BMW you mention

The other benefit is the low mounting point of the engine (possible because of its small size) giving you a low centre of mavity.

 

[MikeHiow]

Polar moment of inertia is far more important than 50:50.

No point having 50:50 if all that weight is at the front and back of the car.

Must be why the RX8 is so awesome, with the engine mounted so low, and so far back.

 

[MikeHiow]

 

[MikeHiow]

This thread shows one thing, and one thing only.

Internet hype is LOL. The amount of people that dismiss the RX8, and choose the ITR based on internet hype is hilarious, and you can spot the ones that are guilty from a mile off.

 

[MikeHiow]

I never tried comparing them - I was just trying to demonstrate that the equal times on the TG track were not quite as ridiculous as Fox was making them out to be.

You are right though, I am a huge fan of the RX8, but on the other side of the fence, I'm a big fan of the DC2 as well - I just don't think the DC2 is better than the RX8 (not that the RX8 is necessarily better than the DC2 either)

 

[MikeHiow]

That isn't it at all. That comment is aimed at the posts where people have clearly driven neither.

As I've stated, I like them both pretty much equally, I just disagree that the DC2 is better or faster than the RX8 (and you'll notice, I've not stated the RX8 is better than the DC2 either) - I consider them pretty equally matched, hence this thread.

 

[MikeHiow]

Interestingly there are people Ive read about that stick corvette v8s in rx7s. Quicker more powerful, better on fuel and ..... Lighter. I wonder if that might be an option on rx8s. One with a blown engine must be worth peanuts.

You could do the apex seals several times for the price of this conversion, you also defeat the point of the RX7 by removing the rotary.

 

[MikeHiow]

No, its based on the fact that one can be picked up for £1500 less than any RX8 I'd consider, and a passenger ride in one.

 

[MikeHiow]

£5k vs. £5k was based on two of a similar condition (average).

Given its purpose, I'm willing to look at higher mileage and ones in less perfect external condition - hence swaying towards the ITR.

I had been considering changing my ST for a normal focus for family use, allowing me to get an RX8 for me, but after working out what dealers are willing to pay for the ST - the cost of changing (purchase vs. selling price, as well as considering depreciation of a lesser model focus and higher maintenance costs of an older one) doesn't really make it worth while.

If I keep the ST as a family car (as lets face it, neither of us really want it to go), ditch the mondeo and get an ITR - I can achieve motoring happiness for around £1500 I just wish I'd realised this earlier.

 

[MikeHiow]

Because the ST is just like a lesser model Focus, but better in every way - I'd much rather drive the ST day to day than a normal model, despite the differences in fuel economy (Which isn't great unless you suffer the 1.6). Its more comfortable most of the time, it drives beautifully, torque rocks for normal driving and it still manages to remind you that you are driving something slightly special every time you go out in it. The Mondeo is dog **** compared to the ST.

A DC2 is a lot more focussed than the ST - it doesn't try to be a super comfy, easy to live with daily driver - it tries to be a genuinely good drivers car, a fairly raw one from my experience, too. I'm fed up with compromise, and whilst I'm not out of it completely, I can't afford an Elise or a decent Caterham quite yet

Yes Fox, I was wrong - I'm perfectly capable of admitting it.

 

[MikeHiow]

So much hypocrisy.

A DC2 is obviously not for you.

Stick with your RX8 idea. Can't afford one? Save up a little longer then.

It isn't a case of being able to afford it, its about what I'm willing to spend for a given purpose. I want a car to abuse on the road, abuse at autotests and abuse at trackdays. Why would spending £1500 on an RX8 be a better choice for what I need?

 

[MikeHiow]

Hrm, I look at it as an RX8 is too good/expensive to abuse. Although I don't need to, even if I did save an extra £1500, that wouldn't make the RX8 any more suitable for what I want.

 

[MikeHiow]

That isn't really it at all - running costs of the "hoon car" are irrelevant, as it'll do next to no mileage - not that a DC2 is going to be significantly cheaper to run, anyway.

The DC2 is going to have better residuals, too.

 

[MikeHiow]

Gosh yes, imagine if people had pointed out in the past how keeping the ST as a family car was the best idea, allowing you to buy something else as a toy.

But as usual, only MikeHiow is ever right, so you criticised the suggestions and dismissed them

I think he's so deep in his web of lies he doesn't know what the truth is anymore. Every day he says something completely different. The sheer number of cars he's been almost about to buy over the last year are just ridiculous, for example.

I don't understand, one minute you were telling me I was wrong before, and now you're telling me I'm wrong now, and lying, too?

I do wonder if you just argue for the sake of arguing.

I'm really confused why you'd be even thinking about residual values on a car that you fully intend on trashing the living crap out of .

Money is obviously an issue - What's wrong with one of the many, MANY £1000 - £1500 cars out there that would make an ideal hoon car?

Decent residuals are a good thing, because I can sell it at any time without really losing any money.

I can't think of any car that is £1000-£1500 that I'd really want to own.

Agreed, when I had both the Mustang and EVO together, insuring, taxing and running both cost a bloody lot of money, hell I could mortgage a pretty damn nice house for the cost involved.

Could I afford it well just about, was it sensible, definetely not. Unlike property cars just loose more and more money.

So it was not sensible to keep both and was a huge drain on my cash supply and hence the Mustang was sold. Selling the Mustang means I can live a decent lifestyle that just does not revolve around cars.

You're talking about two very expensive cars to own and run. I'm talking about two relatively cheap performance cars, both to own and run.

I think Mike wakes each day, and opens an email which tells him his opinion for the day. It's the only explanation.

Care to explain this one? Where has my opinion changed?

You have to bear in mind he lives on the Isle of Wight...

Imagine the inbreeding of Norfolk but on an island.

You're cool. You clearly have nothing to add, so resort to insults.

 

[MikeHiow]

A joke is funny the first time you hear it, it just becomes tedious after years of hearing it.

 

[MikeHiow]

Why does it matter? It's a toy! By your own admission it is going to be used and abused!

Sure it does, that doesn't mean I want to keep it forever, or that I want it to cost lots of money - you of all people should know all about this.

But unfortunately it doesn't really seem to like you have the right sort of money to own a £5,000 car for the purpose that you're intending to use it for.

Says who? I don't want to spend £5k on an RX8 that is a bit too good for me to enjoy it fully - plus I know what an RX8 is like, I'd like to 'experience' a DC2 properly.

I think you've lost sight of what you're arguing about - I don't want to spend £5k, I want to spend around £3.5k.

 

[MikeHiow]

I see, so what you spend so much time on here trying to get at is that I'm indecisive.

I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was such a big deal.