Declining attitude to law and order

[MookJong]

It's hard to avoid hearing about the spate of shootings, stabbings and moped crimes in London and of course the debate if Sadiq Khan is doing enough or not.

I stumbled over this video someone had posted on social media yesterday and it totally shocked me. It's not the person the police are trying to arrest but the actions and attitudes of the bystanders.

Seeing a female officer being attacked while young able men laugh really made me depressed.

It was a real eye opener as to the scale of the problems the police must be facing. Not only is nobody around supporting them but they are basically cheering for disorder in their own streets. Seeing violence like this on the street of my town would be shocking.

For the people saying Sadiq Khan isn't doing enough I honestly don't know what he can do in the short term, clearly there are problems far deeper than just the criminals themselves.

How do you even start to improve things when the general mindset is so warped?

I see other countries are starting national service again. I used to think it was a silly idea, now I don't know. We need a long term strategy or things will surely get worse not better.

 

[MookJong]

It's really difficult to know what to do, for years the left has been talking about a lack of money for social projects etc leading youth to crime. The left is pushing for more liberal solutions involving better education and social care. But at the same time back when I was growing up there was far less money for these things but the community would police it's self a lot more.

There were a lot more housewives out and about during the day at the local shops etc. People knew each other and families tried to avoid a bad name. There was a level of shame if your son got into trouble with the police for example. Now it seems people are basically anonymous to each other in their own streets and community policing seems non existent. Thatcher famously said there is no such thing as society and I think this is the biggest mistake in the direction this country has take in the last 40 years.

Look at what Japan does, every small block of houses has a kind of community warden, often a retired policeman who looks after peoples concerns and looks out for families having problems etc. The Japanese are renowned for community cohesion and consideration for others. We could learn a lot. Or should I say remember a lot, we used to know this stuff I still remember it as a child.

I've just come back from 2 weeks in a small Austrian town which doesn't help, but I'm looking around and thinking what on earth are we doing?

 

[MookJong]

Cannot agree with you more. People don't go to church anymore, people drive 40 minutes to go to work and back. They don't work with the people who live near them, they don't go to the pub anymore. People earn loads of money in London to then move out to the country and do all of the above. There is no community anymore, it's sad.

It's weird, it's like our public servants don't see how detrimental this shift has been, it is never discussed. Everything is about the individual now and what the individual is feeling but that shouldn't be the concern of councils and governments, that is your own business. Gone are the bus conductors, milkmen, postman, small shop owners that you would see week in week out. These were not necessarily authority figures but certainly community figures that allowed you to reflect on your part in the bigger picture of where you lived.

24hr, outsourced and centralised might be efficient but it is short sighted and going to come back to bite us I think.

 

[MookJong]

Wow, what an absolute circus. How poor that the staff of the restaurant are not helping the police, this just shows you the state of play. The staff probably felt too intimidated or are just as apathetic and dismissive themselves.

Edit:

An article has appeared in the Independent with comment from the police federation:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-met-police-federation-officers-a8512191.html

Speaking to BBC Radio 5Live, Mr Marsh laid out several factors he thought had contributed to the ugly scenes.

He said: “I think there is a lack of sentencing and strength of action that’s taken against police when they are assaulted. I’ve openly heard judges say in court, ‘You should expect it, you’re a police officer’.

“When you start hearing things like that then there is a complete breakdown in society.”

When the judiciary isn't even on your side you know its a sorry state.

 

[MookJong]

We have seen a direct rise in individualism with the decline of hierarchy and institution over the last 40 years. There has been a push to question everything especially power structures and popular culture told you it was cool to be cynical. This has probably been for a few reasons, I guess a rise in left wing politics and intellectualism along with a number of scandals that have exposed corruption within our institutions. This has left people basically cynical of any collective institution that is not focused on the individual.

In some sectors of society a policeman has gone from an authority figure to being stripped of any status and just another individual or even worse an individual form the now despised "system".

My wife is a teacher and I can see this in the attitude parents have towards her. She is just another person, her knowledge and experience counts for nothing. This is not the attitude my parents had or that existed when I was a child. There was an understanding the authority of the running of the school lay with those who ran it and in all likelihood they knew best.

Individualism can work if the everyone involved has a strong sense of personal responsibility. But what about those that aren't responsible. What cues are they picking up from our society so they behave in a way that doesn't make it horrible for the rest of us? I don't really see many, the world seems increasingly like a giant playground where anything goes.

Maybe I'm just an old man but I can still remember when people used to believe in things. I don't think anyone really trusts anything anymore, no wonder the mental health of people is in such a state.

 

[MookJong]

genuine questions;

how many times have you called the police for help?

how many times has the police actually done anything of use when they investigated?

how many times have you helped or aided individuals in need of help in a law breaking situation?

I called 999 on witnessing a daylight assault in the centre of town a few years ago. I followed at a distance the person responsible until the police arrived and arrested them. I helped a store security guard restrain a shoplifter till the police arrived more recently. About a month ago I saw a lad loading a load of coffee into the bottom of a pushchair in Sainsbury's, informed the staff and he was confronted and goods returned. There are probably others over the years.

Luckily where I live is relatively low crime area and don't need to go to places that have a lot of trouble. But I won't just stand by and think "not my problem".

 

[MookJong]

The Dixon of Dock Green era is long passed, it can only be a short matter of time until it's necessary to routinely arm most UK police officers in order to allow them to be an effective deterrent and an effective arresting or detaining force.

Arming officers is an admission of defeat in my eyes, I'm not saying it won't happen but basically the country I grew up disappears once that starts happening. Are the people with children not furious at what we are seeing? There are beautiful parts of the UK still operating with very low crime rates and that still have strong family ethos where people respect their surroundings. Is this not something to value and cherish anymore?

We are being Americanised, dehumanised and awash with consumer distraction. I just hope our younger generations don't settle for this and fight for a return to something better. However I imagine lawlessness might just keep rising while decent people further retract into Netflix and video games.

 

[MookJong]

Everyone knows this is a moral and cultural problem not a poverty problem. Saying it is poverty does a great disservice to a great many people who are struggling to survive but do not steal, intimidate or use violence.

Stop wearing stupid tracksuits, listening and idolising morally questionable people and music scenes like drill, trap and hip-hop. Read a book....

We need to laugh at these "gangster" adults wearing sportswear without sports or a gym in sight. This lifestyle has been completely legitimised and promoted as cool by the BBC and others. It is an alien culture that clearly isn't working very well for more than a handful of rappers.

 

[MookJong]

It's not just shoplifting though is it, the latest video to do the rounds shows a lad perform a running flying kick on a female police officer. What has that got to do with not being able to afford some trainers or a jacket.

The guy filming just laughs it off and makes no attempt to help. These people are morally bankrupt.

 

[MookJong]

God is dead in the minds of most people, we lost trust in authority figures and police, the ideals of a normal family life are hardly promoted. Fast money lifestyles and gang culture have been accepted by the mainstream. Our tax payer funded broadcaster has radio and TV shows dedicated to re-enforcing this "culture" which is anything but cultured.

More and more we have rules and regulations drawn up by academics and civil servants about how we should use language and conduct ourselves while less and less we see any moral conduct in these communities. We've never talked more about "respect" while down on the street civil society is under full on assault.

 

[MookJong]

Stop and search (but back at the station)

I really really hope this was not a result of a change of policy not to search on the street because of the recent events in the US having a ridiculous impact on our officers.

RIP, just absolutely tragic someone had to lose their life for no reason at all....no reason at all.

 

[MookJong]

I see it all the time on social media. People pick their side and defend everything no matter how obviously indefensible it is. It's nothing more than tribalism.

The older I get the more I realise tribalism is the natural order of everything, its just in the modern age we have become less familiar with the overt forms of it.

 

[MookJong]

I've met a fair few people who won't accept tribalism is the natural order of things and then in the next breath will say "**** the Tories" or something equally tribal. Makes you wonder how they have no self awareness.

I'm not afraid to say I prefer living in a more homogenous town than one that is very diverse. I've done a lot of travelling and this goes for places I've visited. The most beautiful and interesting places are normally very rooted in the history of a shared ancestry. Multicultural societies are usually rooted more in capitalism so they tend to be all very similar.