Denon PMA-60, do i need it?

[orange_smurf]

A tweak to my audio setup is in order so here I am at Sound City! Tipping my toes into this arena is daunting to say the least. Here we go…


My setup is old but gets me by playing games on pc, ps4 and listening to hi-res music but there’s a lot of cable swapping. The sound from my onboard soundcard poor and I can’t use optical out because of limited connections on the hi-fi. All this is bugging me - it’s time for an upgrade!

• Onkyo 715dab Mini Hi-Fi
• B&W 600 S3 Bookshelf Speakers
• B&W ASW608 Subwoofer
• Sennheiser PC360 Headset

The Denon PMA-60 system is new and hasn’t been mentioned on this forum so what do you think? Key features for me are USB DAC, 2x optical input, headphone amp and sub out.

Is it worth considering the Denon as an “all in one” solution @ £450 to replace the Onkyo (no need for cd or radio)? Possibly spending £200 complementing it with a new headset just for music.

Sure could do with some help

 

[Marsman]

PMA60 looks like a good amp. All these smaller form factor amps from the well recognised hifi brands tend to be quite pricey compared to a full size amp, around the £400 mark. Admittedly though, you're buying more than just an amp; a combined DAC as well. I suppose it depends on whether you are comfortable paying £450.

PMA50 is £350 currently at SuperFi, which is 25W into 8 Ohm, rather than 30W of the PMA60. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Another cheaper option is to add a DAC to your Onkyo. You could get an SMSL M6 DAC/headphone amp for about £140, use USB from PC and optical from PS4 and use line out to the Onkyo's aux in.

 

[orange_smurf]

PMA60 looks like a good amp. All these smaller form factor amps from the well recognised hifi brands tend to be quite pricey compared to a full size amp, around the £400 mark. Admittedly though, you're buying more than just an amp; a combined DAC as well. I suppose it depends on whether you are comfortable paying £450.

PMA50 is £350 currently at SuperFi, which is 25W into 8 Ohm, rather than 30W of the PMA60. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Another cheaper option is to add a DAC to your Onkyo. You could get an SMSL M6 DAC/headphone amp for about £140, use USB from PC and optical from PS4 and use line out to the Onkyo's aux in.

Thanks Marsman, tbh i overlooked adding a DAC to my existing setup - i just figured my onkyo was so old that anything new would better. I was thinking Marantz HDAMP1 or Yamaha A-S801 at one point if it will last me a couple of years. much reading to do.

I've got £750 for this one so i'm fine paying £450 for the PMA60 with cash for a new headset.
Adding a SMSL M6 to my existing setup as you suggested will leave me with plenty for an uber headset...hmm.....

 

[Marsman]

If you can afford the Denon or a similar amp, then it's probably a worthy investment. Just looking at the PMA60 again, the specs say 25W into 8 Ohm. No idea where I saw 30W, but that makes it the same power output as the PMA50, which is £100 cheaper. Not really sure what the PMA60 offers over the PMA50.

The Marantz has more power, 35W into 8 Ohm. Haven't looked much at it, so I don't know what else it offers for the extra £200 over the Denon PMA60. The Onkyo is likely 25W into 8 Ohm, so the Denon will offer similar performance in terms of achievable volume. If the Onkyo is enough to drive what I'm guessing are 601's to satisfying level of volume without having to push the amp, then the Denon PMA, either 50 or 60, should be a good choice. It is better to have more power than not enough when it comes to amplifiers though, but more power does bump up the price quite a bit with these smaller size amps.

The Yamaha, I notice is what you could call a full size amp. I assumed you were specifically wanting a smaller size amp, similar to that of the Onkyo. If a full size amp is not a problem, then that does open up to more choice for a more powerful amp at a lower price. Marantz PM6006 UK edition is £370 at Richer Sounds. 45W into 8 Ohm and has 2 optical and 1 coaxial inputs; or you could look at other amps with out digital inputs and get a DAC for connecting to PC and console. Something like the SMSL M6 or similar.

 

[orange_smurf]

Marantz PM6006 UK edition is £370 at Richer Sounds

Thanks again!!

I've spent a day looking at various options and I've decided against a full size amp. Matched with bookshelf speakers it just looks silly in the shop. I'm back to smaller amps but that makes life easier as i'm back with your original suggestions.

However, there's one compact amp that caught my eye called Audiolab M-One. It's online for £399 so competes with the PMA60. It has, 1 optical and 1 coaxial input and 1 pc usb but big on power 40W (8Ω). I'll have to use the stereo output for my sub.

So, it boils down to my final question...Audiolab M-One or Denon PMA60?

 

[hornetstinger]

Personally I'd recommend full size amp. More connectivity, more power, better cooling.

 

[Marsman]

Given the power output the audiolab, surely has to be the better choice. It's a bit cheaper than I would have expected from audiolab. Not that that's a bad thing. 40W into 8 Ohm Vs 25W of the Denon. Got to be a no brainer, surely.

 

[orange_smurf]

Personally I'd recommend full size amp. More connectivity, more power, better cooling.

Tempting but i'm just dipping my toes in the water right now... when i get rid of my B&W's i'll upgrade. All in good time.

Given the power output the audiolab, surely has to be the better choice. It's a bit cheaper than I would have expected from audiolab. Not that that's a bad thing. 40W into 8 Ohm Vs 25W of the Denon. Got to be a no brainer, surely.

Yep, the Audiolab M-One is hovering around the £600 mark on most online shops but there's a sale on @ audiovisualonline where the Marantz PM6006 can be picked up for £279 too!

 

[Marsman]

I think £280 is the price for the PM6006 everywhere; at least it is at a few places I've looked anyway.

Actually, I didn't realise it had digital inputs. Thought it was just the UK edition that did, and the standard 6006 had analogue only inputs.

Looks like a good choice if you don't mind the larger size.

 

[PapaLazaru]

That Audiolab looks sweet for the price.

What HiFi gave it 4 stars at £800.

https://www.whathifi.com/audiolab/m-one/review

 

[orange_smurf]

I think £280 is the price for the PM6006 everywhere; at least it is at a few places I've looked anyway.

Actually, I didn't realise it had digital inputs. Thought it was just the UK edition that did, and the standard 6006 had analogue only inputs.

Looks like a good choice if you don't mind the larger size.

I measured up today but it's an awkward fit . I can just about manage to fit a Marantz HDAMP1 in the space I have. Shame really as it fits the bill.

That Audiolab looks sweet for the price.

What HiFi gave it 4 stars at £800.

https://www.whathifi.com/audiolab/m-one/review

'Hello Dave', thanks for the link. Off to SuperFi later this week to have a play.


Thank-you all!!

 

[ethan]

How does the PMA-60/50 compare to the Nad 3020D. I always regretted not going for the version that had the better headphone amp. are there any better alternatives to the the 3020D for the same or cheaper price?

 

[orange_smurf]

How does the PMA-60/50 compare to the Nad 3020D. I always regretted not going for the version that had the better headphone amp. are there any better alternatives to the the 3020D for the same or cheaper price?

PMA-60: On High Gain, I found that the volume has to be around 76% before a pair of Sennheiser 650's show their worth. Around 84% and my ears bleed. Any louder and the sound gets distorted. Lower volumes just drown out the sound so maybe it's a little under powered? My headphones are new out the box so that may be the reason. Yet to try more amps so we will see...

Anyways, I hope this helps!?

 

[ethan]

I ended up buying the Audiolab MDac.

 

[orange_smurf]

Good choice!

Marantz was my favourite overall but space restriction left me with Audiolab MDac/M-One or the Denon PMA-60 as viable options. When it came down to it the power output from the Denon was more than enough to drive my speakers and sub so I went for that. With the rest of my budget, I also picked up a pair of HD650's on the cheap so i'm a happy bunny.

massdrop have the smsl m6 dac on offer so i'll give that a punt just for comparison. it never ends....

 

[ethan]

Good choice!

.

Price had dropped to £450.00 and I managed to bag a further reduction on a open box.

 

[Tephnos]

Good choice!

Marantz was my favourite overall but space restriction left me with Audiolab MDac/M-One or the Denon PMA-60 as viable options. When it came down to it the power output from the Denon was more than enough to drive my speakers and sub so I went for that. With the rest of my budget, I also picked up a pair of HD650's on the cheap so i'm a happy bunny.

massdrop have the smsl m6 dac on offer so i'll give that a punt just for comparison. it never ends....

Bit of a bump but how is the PMA-60 treating you now? Been looking at it and I've been tempted, the adjustable gain feature is fairly rare with these amps and gain mismatch is the biggest factor in what makes a headphone sound good or bad with certain amps.

 

[orange_smurf]

Bit of a bump but how is the PMA-60 treating you now? Been looking at it and I've been tempted, the adjustable gain feature is fairly rare with these amps and gain mismatch is the biggest factor in what makes a headphone sound good or bad with certain amps.

Hi, The PMA-60 is a tidy little system. It looks good and performs well. Output is a little tinny paired with my B&W speakers but it can drive them just fine.

For casual use, Medium gain is best certainly for Sennheiser 650 but it did feel like the headset had more give even at high volume. With high gain the Sennheiser 650 get a little punchier but you begin to lose clarity at mid to high volume and introduce distortion. At this level it’s not a good listening experience. Overall, I think the Headphone Amp is a little on the weak side. I think it will struggle to drive a high-end headset. The SMSL M6 is a much better match for something akin to Sennheiser 650.

Getting picky, the volume knob is accurate but a little flimsy. It takes four full turns to get from low to high volume which is irritating when you switch between various inputs.

It all depends on your setup but I would say that if you have a small footprint then the PMA-60 is a good option otherwise go for the Marantz HDAMP1

 

[Tephnos]

Hi, The PMA-60 is a tidy little system. It looks good and performs well. Output is a little tinny paired with my B&W speakers but it can drive them just fine.

For casual use, Medium gain is best certainly for Sennheiser 650 but it did feel like the headset had more give even at high volume. With high gain the Sennheiser 650 get a little punchier but you begin to lose clarity at mid to high volume and introduce distortion. At this level it’s not a good listening experience. Overall, I think the Headphone Amp is a little on the weak side. I think it will struggle to drive a high-end headset. The SMSL M6 is a much better match for something akin to Sennheiser 650.

Getting picky, the volume knob is accurate but a little flimsy. It takes four full turns to get from low to high volume which is irritating when you switch between various inputs.

It all depends on your setup but I would say that if you have a small footprint then the PMA-60 is a good option otherwise go for the Marantz HDAMP1

It's for a desktop setup really. I'm not the largest believer in amps changing the sound of something, if it has enough power to handle the speakers then it should do just fine. I compared amps before with my current D3020 (D7050 is discontinued so unfortunately can't move to that, and I want to keep the same footprint) and at first, I thought 'damn this actually does sound different'. Then I plugged the D3020 back in and turns out it was just expectations and placebo, combined with a volume mismatch...

I use it nearfield on a desk, so yeah it's extremely close, doesn't need to project volume across a large room at all.

Interesting to note about the headphone amp, that was my main reason for wanting it, the adjustable gain. If I can leave out the need for a headphone amp then I'd be pretty pleased. I don't really listen to high volumes on headphones as it is because I'm paranoid about my hearing - it would never go above 75dB in volume.

So the amp has the same volume for headphones and speakers, not separate? Gah, I hate that. I'm always paranoid about forgetting to lower the volume and then destroying my ears as I unplug the cable. Wonder why the hell they allow this possibility to happen.

 

[Lucio P. Fantini]

i have a Denon PMA-60 and it works great!