Difficult Clutch & Liftoft Oversteer Questions

[Tesla]

Afternoon chaps.

A few questions I have.

1) Rover Clutch Related.

This will probably prove hard to explain. The clucth in the Rover has always been kind of stick. I don't mean the clucth plates sticking or slipping. It feels as if it's the pedal.

The pedal is not smooth to bring up. In ALL of the other cars, even racing cars, I have driven the clutch has been much easier to use than like this. The best explanation I can think of is it feels like the pedal is stiff in some places and not in others. This is so hard to describe I am probably making no sense. Does anybody know what I am on about?

2) Liftoft Oversteer. I was coming home at 1am so drove like a loony the other day round a few round abouts experimenting with lift oft oversteer after hearing much talk of it on here. Something I didn't see was it if occurs with left foot breaking?

 

[Oracle]

1) Pedal Spring!?

2) Yes, it can be actioned even with left foot braking, i wouldnt however, want to do it 'breaking' my left foot, as per your post!

 

[pinkaardvark]

If your breaking mid corner sure that'll unsettle yer car, hence it generally good advice not to

 

[Malachy]

Afternoon chaps.

A few questions I have.

1) Rover Clutch Related.

This will probably prove hard to explain. The clucth in the Rover has always been kind of stick. I don't mean the clucth plates sticking or slipping. It feels as if it's the pedal.

The pedal is not smooth to bring up. In ALL of the other cars, even racing cars, I have driven the clutch has been much easier to use than like this. The best explanation I can think of is it feels like the pedal is stiff in some places and not in others. This is so hard to describe I am probably making no sense. Does anybody know what I am on about?

2) Liftoft Oversteer. I was coming home at 1am so drove like a loony the other day round a few round abouts experimenting with lift oft oversteer after hearing much talk of it on here. Something I didn't see was it if occurs with left foot breaking?

1. could be a bush or worn clutch pedal mechanism. just spray with wd or something see if it helps?
2. over steer can be induced by left foot braking, it can be indiced by pretty much anything that will get the rear wheels to loose grip either by:
Making the rear wheels light (braking in corner)

Going in a corner too hot and lifting off creating a pendulum effect pulling the back around (lift off over steer).

Scandinavian flick creating a weight shift similar to lift off but more forced.

And of course the emrgency grab handle called the handbrake you can touch this on entry to a corner and induce some oversteer too

so to answer lift off oversteer doesnt really come from left foot braking. you can cause oversteer by left foot braking but, lift off oversteer is caused by the weight shift as you come off the power mid corner causing wight to shift to the front wheels making the rear light then the momentum create a pendulum effect and pulls the rear around hence 'lift off'

 

[Tesla]

Scandinavian flick creating a weight shift similar to lift off but more forced.

I have been trying to find some private land to do some scandinavian flicks.

Oh by the way I meant left foot brakeing, my original suggestion was much too painful when I tried it last

I am quite sure that it's the clutch pedal sort of sticking, the area it sticks is the region where the bite is though so it's quite hard to drive, hill starts are scary.

Bring my foot up and the clutch pedal doesnt move then BAM and you launch forward! I have soaked it in WD40 and it did improve a lot which makes me think that somthing is a bit crusty around the pedal area.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Are you familiar with left foot braking on a road car?
I've used left foot braking in racing cars, but still find it hard to apply on the road. Last time I tried it (no cars around, slow speed and in a straightline), I nearly headbutted my steering wheel. It just didn't feel natural.
Trying to learn left foot braking as part of lift off oversteer sounds like an instant insurance claim coming up.

 

[Tesla]

Mr Sukebe I have left foot braked many a time in road cars.

I don't claim to be an amazing driver but have been told many a time that I am a natural, ex-professionals have told me this too.

I can brake with my left foot almost, if not as accurately as I can with my right.

You probably think I am a typical young driver who thinks they are the best, this is not the case. I have been caught out once or twice on the track. I don't drive like an idiot on the roads. Hence not actually trying left foot breaking whilst going round a roundabout with Fate-O tyres in the pouring rain.

 

[sja360]

stupid question here but how exactly would left foot braking work? i mean the clutch is on the left so when your braking how exactly would you put down the clutch for dropping gears? or are we assuming that its a auto or ?

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

You probably think I am a typical young driver who thinks they are the best, this is not the case. I have been caught out once or twice on the track. I don't drive like an idiot on the roads. Hence not actually trying left foot breaking whilst going round a roundabout with Fate-O tyres in the pouring rain.

I'm far too old to presume that people aren't good drivers just because they're younger than me.
If you say you're natural at it, I'm envious and good on you.

As for your questions on inducing oversteer, I found that simply backing off the throttle on my old GT twin cam whilst going around bendy roads was enough to get the back end light. Do it harshly and I could get the back end out. Whilst it was amusing, never seemed to be a lot of point on a fwd car.
On a rwd car, appropriate misuse of the throttle is a lot more fun. I generally keep it to damp roads to preserve my tyres.
Don't know what I'll do in summer, drive normally I guess.

 

[Sirrel Squirrel]

drop into the lowest gear possible then left foot brake?

 

[Enfield]

If you want to experience lift-off oversteer, wait till it's wet, go in a low gear such as 1st around a small roundabout or something, turn in then come off the throttle quickly. Obviously do it when no-one is around...

 

[Tesla]

Don't know what I'll do in summer, drive normally I guess.

That made me chuckle.

I have never actually driven a RWD car, I am interested to do so and hope to be doing a Skid Pan session in the summer.

I don't know if I am a natural driver. I recall the first time I ever drove. I had a rough idea what to do anyway as ever since being little I have wanted to drive and have loved cars etc...

I was insured on my Mum's Micra on a quiet industrial estate on a Sunday with my Dad. Got in the car, I was quite nervous actually and he just said "drive then".

And somehow I did! I didn't stall or anything.

The only thing wrong was my spacial awareness which I have improved massively but still feel it's my weakest point.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Always made me wonder why some people are simply more naturally gifted than others at certain things.
Most of my friends haven't got a clue how to drive "effectively" at speed. What I mean by that is the ability to balance a car with smoothness, they seem to think that simply gunning a car will get places fast.
Still, also true on track. Amazes me how many people arrive at Kart tracks in expensive machinery, but really haven't got a clue. Always leaves me wondering what they do with their expensive road car? Traffic light Grand Prix I guess.

If you've never spent time in a rwd, you really should look at getting one for your next car. I simply can't explain how much more full filling it is to drive a good one and drive it well. It's easy to drive a fwd car fairly quickly as it doesn't require the balance. The pleasure from getting a rwd car setup well is lovely.
I don't know your actual age, but assuming insurance is a problem, make some time to checkout an MX5, which are only grp 12 (non-sport model). Smile a minute motoring, even when just pottering along.

 

[Tesla]

I have been seriously contemplating getting an MX5. I can afford one, come June time I could afford to insure one for much less than the Mondeo was costing me too.

Just, I need a Mondeo sized car for my job.

Hopefully business will continue to grow and I can afford to run two cars in which case I will be getting a little something for the weekend

 

[JBeck]

have been told many a time that I am a natural, ex-professionals have told me this too

So then left foot braking would come naturally surely? Left foot braking is not meant to induce 'lift off' oversteer... Because a). You're not lifting off the thottle (duh) and b). It's meant as a way to slow the car down WITHOUT inducing any unsettling of the car.

 

[Tesla]

So then left foot braking would come naturally surely? Left foot braking is not meant to induce 'lift off' oversteer... Because a). You're not lifting off the thottle (duh) and b). It's meant as a way to slow the car down WITHOUT inducing any unsettling of the car.

a)It was clear I was asking if it had the same effect as lifting off?

b)I thought it was a way of slowing the car whilst retaining engine revs?

I never said left foot braking was unatural either.

 

[geiger]

For lift off oversteer, drive in a circle in an empty carpark, increase speed until you start to get understeer then back off the accelerator while continuing to steer in a sharp circle. The back wheels should not lose traction that easy but you should at least feel the rear shift around on its suspension.

Eventually if you are rough enough then it'll break traction and your'll get your oversteer, dont expect it to be progressive or controllable but you could at least experiment with controlling it I guess.

I dont advise trying to break traction on a roundabout because your hit a curb, sign or railings

 

[Brum Man]

Are you familiar with left foot braking on a road car?

I used to have to this all the time when I drove my 1st car (a 1980 RWD cavalier), take your foot off the accelerator at any point in the 1st 5 minutes of driving it in the winter and it'd stall straight away, so keeping it revved and doing everything else with my left foot was a must.

It's one of those those things that you have to do all the time to start to get the feel, but once you have it it's almost as natural as right foot braking.

 

[Vipernet]

I have been seriously contemplating getting an MX5. I can afford one, come June time I could afford to insure one for much less than the Mondeo was costing me too.

Just, I need a Mondeo sized car for my job.

Hopefully business will continue to grow and I can afford to run two cars in which case I will be getting a little something for the weekend

Yeh, your best bet would be to get a mk1 mx5 (import if possible) great machines for mucking about in and learning rwd.

 

[JBeck]

a)It was clear I was asking if it had the same effect as lifting off?

b)I thought it was a way of slowing the car whilst retaining engine revs?

I never said left foot braking was unatural either.

No it wasn't clear, which is why i said what i said . Yep it retains revs but it also keeps the car in shape, because if you lift off you might induce oversteer... The way you said that you were told you're a natural genuinely seemed to me that you should then find it a natural thing to do...