Disgusting Mail article, need to rant...

Robboftw said:
Oh dear, having read your posts in this thread, just wow...

Just what planet do you live on? :confused:

You and a select few other people in here are spouting so much nonsense it defies belief!
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I find it amazing when someone expresses an opinion thats not in line with the general consensus and steps out of the boundaries of whats "the norm" the are leapt upon, what i'm saying seems nonsense because it is so different from the sugar coated, shallow, celebrity and sex scandal obsessed world that is rammed down our throats every day, maybe if you opened your eyes, done some research and put down that copy of the sun, zoo magazine or whatever crap that formulates your opinions and read some books and political philosiphies you would understand whats going on in the world, how many people know that Al Qaeda was created by the CIA or even what the word Al Qaeda means? don't you ever wonder if these wars have been going on for the best part of a decade and cost billions, put enormous strain on our resources and economy, how the hell these "insurgents" who live in third world conditions can afford to keep on fighting and where they get there arms from in the first place?
 
arcon33 said:
I find it amazing when someone expresses an opinion thats not in line with the general consensus and steps out of the boundaries of whats "the norm" the are leapt upon, what i'm saying seems nonsense because it is so different from the sugar coated, shallow, celebrity and sex scandal obsessed world that is rammed down our throats every day, maybe if you opened your eyes, done some research and put down that copy of the sun, zoo magazine or whatever crap that formulates your opinions and read some books and political philosiphies you would understand whats going on in the world, how many people know that Al Qaeda was created by the CIA or even what the word Al Qaeda means? don't you ever wonder if these wars have been going on for the best part of a decade and cost billions, put enormous strain on our resources and economy, how the hell these "insurgents" who live in third world conditions can afford to keep on fighting and where they get there arms from in the first place?
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Lots of silly assumptions there. All of them wrong.
 
arcon33 said:
I find it amazing when someone expresses an opinion thats not in line with the general consensus and steps out of the boundaries of whats "the norm" the are leapt upon, what i'm saying seems nonsense because it is so different from the sugar coated, shallow, celebrity and sex scandal obsessed world that is rammed down our throats every day, maybe if you opened your eyes, done some research and put down that copy of the sun, zoo magazine or whatever crap that formulates your opinions and read some books and political philosiphies you would understand whats going on in the world, how many people know that Al Qaeda was created by the CIA or even what the word Al Qaeda means? don't you ever wonder if these wars have been going on for the best part of a decade and cost billions, put enormous strain on our resources and economy, how the hell these "insurgents" who live in third world conditions can afford to keep on fighting and where they get there arms from in the first place?
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I suggest you put down your copy of "Conspiracies 'r' Us" and take your own advice and get out into the real world.
 
arcon33 said:
I find it amazing when someone expresses an opinion thats not in line with the general consensus and steps out of the boundaries of whats "the norm" the are leapt upon, what i'm saying seems nonsense because it is so different from the sugar coated, shallow, celebrity and sex scandal obsessed world that is rammed down our throats every day, maybe if you opened your eyes, done some research and put down that copy of the sun, zoo magazine or whatever crap that formulates your opinions and read some books and political philosiphies you would understand whats going on in the world rant rant rant
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You do realise you've just lost because you've done exactly the same thing as the Zoo & Sun readers?
If you're so clever you should have given a well reasoned argument like our Castiel does.
 
MrLOL said:
how do you think the british troops talk to each other when on the frontline ?

Watch documentaries like the Ross Kemp on Afghanistan one and listen to how they talk amongst themselves. From what i've seen it is very much that. The article merely reflects the tone of the book.

At the end of the day its a soldiers job to kill the enemy. If de humanising them makes it easier for them who are we to disagree ?
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Not really sure, never had that detailed conversation but i do sense a bit of brainwashing through general conversation, towards dehumanisation etc.

The reason why dehumanising them is a bad idea is because that leads to war crimes and dis-regard for civilian casualties etc.

This is why the nazi's did such terrible things, those at the camps were not human, they were rats. That was the opinion.

To me, being ordered to kill is enough, i do not hate these people, why should i? Im not going to become closed minded, racist or illogical just to make killing a few people slightly easier.
 
arcon33 said:
By the way the afghans and Iraqis have every right to fight our troops as we are the ones invading there country, wouldn't we be ****ed off and be in the streets fighting if foreign tanks started rolling down our streets, troops raping and killing our families? And then be angry if we were called terrorists for daring to oppose invasion? If this is the case then our grandparents etc where terrorists because they where fighting an invading force in two world wars
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Oh yeah, of course; we are invading Afghanistan and all the Pakistani/Indian/Russian/Chechen/Turks/Syrian/endless list of rebels from surrounding countries who come into these war zones purely to fight "western scum" have the right?
 
Can't wait to see arcon33 in the 'Did we land on the moon' and 'Who believes in UFO's' and 'Was 9/11 and inside job' threads since he does so much reading that's better than our reading.
 
Castiel said:
I suggest you put down your copy of "Conspiracies 'r' Us" and take your own advice and get out into the real world.
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The word conspiracy simply means two or more people coming together for a common cause, so naturally everything the government decide is a conspiracy, you seem to think the word implies crazy stories etc i haven't stated any crazy stories only that Al Qaeda is a CIA created group, the word Al Qaeda loosly means "the database" it is the name of the database the CIA set up when the Soviet Union was invading Afghanistan in the 1070s/1980s, and contains all the names of the Mujahideen the Americans trained, armed and funded, thinking once the soviets retreated they would let the U.S do as they pleased but it went **** up!
 
arcon33 said:
The word conspiracy simply means two or more people coming together for a common cause, so naturally everything the government decide is a conspiracy, you seem to think the word implies crazy stories etc i haven't stated any crazy stories only that Al Qaeda is a CIA created group, the word Al Qaeda loosly means "the database" it is the name of the database the CIA set up when the Soviet Union was invading Afghanistan in the 1070s/1980s, and contains all the names of the Mujahideen the Americans trained, armed and funded, thinking once the soviets retreated they would let the U.S do as they pleased but it went **** up!
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I know what the definition of conspiracy is, I also know that usage of the word can change depending upon the context in which it is used. I suggest you look at the definitions:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conspiracy

al-Qaeda doesn't mean the 'database', the etymology of the word comes from the Arabic for Foundation. Osama Bin Laden stated that the name came from the Training Camp used when they were Mujaheedin and was taken by chance rather than any concious effort to make a statement.

You got that little bit of misinformation from something former Foreign Secretary Robin Cook said and we all know how competent he was.

al Qaeda wasn't created by the CIA either, it has members of the mujaheedin fighters that were trained and funded by US and UK forces during the USSR occupation of Afghanistan, but that is not the same as it being a construct of the CIA for nefarious activities.
 
arcon33 said:
This is what i mean when someone says something thats not in line with the statos qou they are deemed crazy and classed together with the "loonies" i pity youre small mindidness
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Being able to see the reality of a given situation is not small mindedness.

Attributing all sorts of ulterior motivations and conspiratorial reasons for things that have a perfectly reasonable explanation is rather daft however.

In the vast majority of cases, things are simply how they appear to be.
 
arcon33 said:
what the word Al Qaeda means?
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The base!,

The base was a place held by fighters and assaulted by russian troops, after a long siege the russians were beaten back.

Osama became a hero from this and his legend as some kind of hero fighter was promoted by a short video clip showing him with an AK slung on his shoulder.

He had already become popular for financing lots of humanitarian aid to afghan people.

If the US had listened to Charlie Wilson they would have poured aid into Afghanistan when the Russians pulled out, this would have given the at the time mostly united fighters and mostly united people a base to at least try and build a country from the ashes.

Instead they just sat back and left the afghan people in the mess they were in and it resulted in the anarchy that helped the taliban take hold. Also Osama and friends along with the then mostly united mujahideen felt let down badly after fighting a war by proxy for the US, they never had much love for the US and the west but this gave them new reason to hate.

So after a civil war between various warlords and groups of factions Al Qaeda with its ability to recruit foreign fighters was sheltered in the newly created mostly hardline taliban state with only small enclaves of original mujahideen.

The taliban being accepted due to their ability to bring order and some kind of law to areas previously in chaos due to warlords, the sharia law they imposed and the way the taliban operated was very harsh but the talban gained support because the mujahideen warlords were not able or willing to stop crime only to fight each-other and the population were brutalised by the constant fighting.

In short Javeed average afghan was going for the lesser of two evils, hardline talban but he and his family can at least live in some kind of peace, or constant civil war between mujahideen warlords, Javeed average went for the taliban.
 
At the end of the day governments see us all as cannon fodder they don't give a ****, sooner everyone realises this the better, especially the armed forces who do there dirty work for them, often without the proper equiptment, these are mostly honest, hard working people who think they are doing whats best, but sadly they are just being used and tossed aside when they are no longer of use. we should stop interfering with other countries and spend the money and resources on our country instead
 
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