Dispute with a mechanic

sswats · 23 Jun 2014 at 12:39

I took a BMW to a BMW specialist who had a few online forum recommendations. I was warned he was expensive, but I had taken it to other garages who had done a crappy job so just bit the bullet.
The problem was a red warning on the dashboard of a steering wheel and a lock.

They plugged it into the diagnostic system and he said it came back with "change cheapest component" which was apparently the CAS module which costs £245+VAT (plus fitting)

So the red warning light went away for 3 weeks but now has reappeared on the dashboard.

So I took it back and he says that that means the steering column needs changing. He offered to install it for free, but I would have to pay for the additional part which is in the region of 300-400 (waiting for an exact quote).

He was the one who recommended the CAS module. He appears to not have the old one so can't exactly put it back in. and he is passing the back to my car which gave him the message to just change the cheapest component.

But technically should he be responsible in refunding me for the CAS module?

I did get him to change brake disks, pads, tyres, and a full service. So I did spend quite a bit of money with him and have used him before.

It has not turned into a full dispute yet, still just waiting to confirm the cost of the new part then I can negotiate fully. Any advice on how to approach or negotiate would be helpful. Ideally I would just like to pay the difference between the two parts.

Thanks.

davido_labido · 23 Jun 2014 at 12:43

how do you know it didnt solve the problem, but now the stearing column has gone? it has been fine for 3 weeks after all?

as far as he knew, hed fixed it (and you thought he had too) if it was the same day, sure let him front the bill, but i honestly dont think its right 3 weeks later.

thecremeegg · 23 Jun 2014 at 12:53

Any other industry and you can't get away with it but garages seem to be able to charge you a fortune to change a part, claim that's fixed it then find out it hasn't and charge you again for something else.
Doesn't help you but I think you're going to get nowhere sadly.

sswats · 23 Jun 2014 at 12:54

davido_labido said:
how do you know it didnt solve the problem, but now the stearing column has gone? it has been fine for 3 weeks after all?

as far as he knew, hed fixed it (and you thought he had too) if it was the same day, sure let him front the bill, but i honestly dont think its right 3 weeks later.

I don't. But the 2 parts which have the same warning message failing within 3 weeks of each other is not hugely likely.

I had looked up this error online and resetting the software seems to get rid of it. According to these guys anyway.
http://bmwspecialistreading.co.uk/bmw-elv-steering-lock-malfunction-fault/

So a new CAS is the same as resetting. But if it comes back then malfunction itself would be in the column itself.

BTW this is me speculating. I cam here for advice because I don't exactly know what to assume.

leigh_boy · 23 Jun 2014 at 13:06

this is how any garage will work.
find fault code > code has mulitple fixes > you start with the cheapest
at no point should you expect him to cover the cost because more then one component might be faulty.

sswats · 23 Jun 2014 at 13:22

Yeah I am very unfamiliar with the workings of a garage apart from routine services.

This is the first problem I've had with this car in 4 years, and for the previous 10 years before that I've had 3 Hondas, which had 2 very basic repairs done to them in total.

OK so that is 2 people who side with the garage, and one who thinks I can't do anything about it anyway.

Felix · 23 Jun 2014 at 13:29

He is also fitting the new column for free...

bazzabear · 23 Jun 2014 at 13:53

Without knowing more about it, I would say he did the work in good faith, and it doesn't seem there's any way he could or should have known better than to do the work that he did.

So while it's unfortunate, I don't think he's in the wrong as such. I think you're stuck with it.

sswats · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:00

I have no doubt he did the job in good faith.

My issue is that he is the one who run the diagnostic, it is his job to know what work needs to be done and he is the one who recommended what needed to be done.

People make mistakes. That's fine. My question was because he was the one who made the recommendation and it appears that he could have been wrong, shouldn't he be responsible for his error?

leigh_boy · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:08

you are looking at this wrong, its like being a doctor > you see some one has a broken foot> you put a cast on it while its fixing it gets infected then it some how is his fault?

[TW]Fox · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:11

leigh_boy said:
this is how any garage will work.
find fault code > code has mulitple fixes > you start with the cheapest
at no point should you expect him to cover the cost because more then one component might be faulty.

The worse a garage is at diagnosis the more the can charge for wasted work. He misdiagnosed the problem, this is a very common issue on these cars, anyone can plug a computer in and just do what it says on the screen, the point in a specialist is that they are supposed to be better than that.

I cant think of many other industries where the customer pays for your errors. It's just crap.

Partially why I just make sure I have BMW warranty now, someone else can pay for clueless guesswork instead.

Cuchulain · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:11

sswats said:
I have no doubt he did the job in good faith.

My issue is that he is the one who run the diagnostic, it is his job to know what work needs to be done and he is the one who recommended what needed to be done.

People make mistakes. That's fine. My question was because he was the one who made the recommendation and it appears that he could have been wrong, shouldn't he be responsible for his error?

Well .. no, he did fix your problem, a new problem arose which is quite possibly completely unrelated.

bazzabear · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:25

sswats said:
I have no doubt he did the job in good faith.

My issue is that he is the one who run the diagnostic, it is his job to know what work needs to be done and he is the one who recommended what needed to be done.

People make mistakes. That's fine. My question was because he was the one who made the recommendation and it appears that he could have been wrong, shouldn't he be responsible for his error?

The question mark is on whether it's reasonable for him to have made this mistake.

If there's no way he could have known that the thing he replaced wasn't the culprit, then is he to blame?

It sounds from your original description that he might have given an implied warning that he couldn't guarantee the part being replaced was the culprit.

ubersonic · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:32

Sounds fine to me, sometimes you have to replace part A to find out if the is a problem further down the line or not, the fact you now know the is an issue with part Y may not even be related.

4T5 · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:33

Doesn't sound much of a Specialist to me but I know very little about these modern motors. Just in terminology though a Specialist is somebody you pay extra for so they do the job properly the First time.

As you are already in to him I'd take up his offer of the free labour & keep my fingers crossed the new column fixes it for good this time.

leigh_boy · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:36

[TW]Fox;26499644 said:
The worse a garage is at diagnosis the more the can charge for wasted work. He misdiagnosed the problem, this is a very common issue on these cars, anyone can plug a computer in and just do what it says on the screen, the point in a specialist is that they are supposed to be better than that.

I cant think of many other industries where the customer pays for your errors. It's just crap.

Partially why I just make sure I have BMW warranty now, someone else can pay for clueless guesswork instead.

i dont disagree but thats just how it is.

sswats · 23 Jun 2014 at 14:44

4T5 said:
Doesn't sound much of a Specialist to me but I know very little about these modern motors. Just in terminology though a Specialist is somebody you pay extra for so they do the job properly the First time.

As you are already in to him I'd take up his offer of the free labour & keep my fingers crossed the new column fixes it for good this time.

He does seem to be trusted with a lot of high end BMWs and a few track ones too.
I'm sure he knows his job, but can't expect anyone to have a perfect repair track record.

leigh_boy said:
you are looking at this wrong, its like being a doctor > you see some one has a broken foot> you put a cast on it while its fixing it gets infected then it some how is his fault?

I understand what you are saying. But its more like his foot is either broken or has an infection. He recommended to treat the infection which seemed to solve the problem, but the problem came back after a bit, so then he says actually it looks like a broken leg, but there is a chance you MAY have had an infection as well.

IAmATeaf · 23 Jun 2014 at 15:59

The thing here is that the fault diagnosis machine showed up 2 items as possibly or both at fault.

The default behaviour is to replace the cheapest item and take it from there. If you watch Wheeler Dealers on TV that is exactly what Ed China does, plugs something in, looks at the readout and then starts with the cheapest component in the hope that it fixes the issue.

mikeh501 · 23 Jun 2014 at 16:05

You would absolutely expect a specialist to use their specialist knowledge in diagnosis; otherwise whats the point?

The method of replacing the cheapest part is used by people who havent a clue i.e. your general jobbing - no marque specialist garage. Your expecting depth of experience in the analysis when it comes to a specialist because they should have seen it before - its the whole point.

e.g. Its a common thing on land rover discoveries for the dash to light up like a christmas tree reporting multiple failures..... 99% of the time its a failing alternator - and not something which is reported! Could be expensive with the "fix the cheapest" method lol.

Edit: To the OP; yes id expect a refund on the CAS module and for him to fit the old one back.

MeEsH BaKkA · 23 Jun 2014 at 16:55

The way your post reads op he didn't give you a 100% there it's fixed he said start at the with the cheapest which fixed the proble. For a few weeks (could have been as a result the code had been cleared) I would imagine the Labour on stripping down the whole steering column and inspecting each part to find the fault would cost more in Labour than it would to just replace both suspect parts, but people don't think of mechanical work like (cars, buildings anything) and would run to the next garage who would take a 50/50 punt on the occasional dodgy fault for a more "realisicc" price.

If you are generally unhappy then demand a refund but by the sounds of it the garage are happy to swallow the Labour of fitting a new steering column so are hardly trying to stitch you up as I expect Labour on a cas module is next to nothing.

Just an alternative view.