Do BT and Virgin phone lines use the same exchange?

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 21:33

I am leaving Virgin and going back to ADSL/VDSL broadband.

There is already a connected BT line and master socket in my house. I just don't have a number for it because for the past 10 years I have been on Virgin Media.

I thought that Virgin had their own network that was independent of BT's. Certainly, the Virgin phone line cable comes in to my house at a different location and to a different socket than the BT one does.

When I'm looking for a new broadband deal, they all want to charge me an engineer installation fee, even though I have a BT line already coming in to my house.

Does this sound right?

bremen1874 · 12 Aug 2020 at 21:52

What are they wanting to charge you? Are we talking £140 for a full new line or some lesser amount for a line reactivation?

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 21:56

bremen1874 said:
What are they wanting to charge you? Are we talking £140 for a full new line or some lesser amount for a line reactivation?

Its about £50 to £60 depending on who I choose. However they have said its an engineer visit to my house. I don't see why I would need an engineer visit when the line is already there?

If its a visit to the exchange, then again that seems odd because Virgin and BT use their own separate networks I thought?

The way I see, my BT wire is already connected somewhere and just needs to be assigned a number. I thought this would be done electronically these days, not an engineer moving wires around.

Begbie · 12 Aug 2020 at 21:57

I had to have one visit, because the pairs had been disconnected at the junction box. So yeah, it's probably not connected.

bremen1874 · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:00

After 10 years your BT line almost certainly isn't connected to anything and BT will need to send someone to trace and reconnect it.

A charge of £50/£60 is a reactivation fee. Not unexpected, but sometimes waived depending on what services you're signing up for.

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:07

Where are we talking about though - my house or in the street or in the exchange? Its definitely connected in my house, I have took the cover of the master socket off to check.

bremen1874 · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:11

There are various places upstream between you and the exchange where it could be disconnected. There's a small chance it isn't, but they've likely reallocated some of the upstream capacity to other connections.

Expecting them to leave your line connected and maintained for 10 years so it can be reactivated with the flick of a software switch isn't reasonable. There's also the other admin involved with transferring/allocating a number to the line.

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:19

bremen1874 said:
Expecting them to leave your line connected and maintained for 10 years so it can be reactivated with the flick of a software switch isn't reasonable. There's also the other admin involved with transferring/allocating a number to the line.

Hmm interesting. I would have thought the opposite really. I would have expected the wires to leave my house and be connected into the local street cabinet. Then the street cabinet is connected onwards to the exchange but not one line per property - there is probably some electronic switching going on at that point. So yes, I would have expected all the incoming wires from each house to be connected and terminated into the cabinet and for this to be a permanent fixed set of wiring.

If BT physically disconnected every house that switched to Virgin or let their line lapse, this seems like a nightmare to keep on top of. Surely they would 'lose' the wiring over time if they didn't keep it connected? (Lots of disconnected wiring in the cabinet would tend to become very messy over time).

gpuerrilla · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:22

Agree, reality is they wont have resources to disconnect physically each transfer/disconnect. Its a blanket cost to cover the cases where it is needed. I m happy to be corrected by a forum who works for BT/Openreach to clarify what is the procedure.

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:25

This is the description I am presented with when I go through the online forms for plusnet:

So this is actually very misleading, because as far as my house is concerned, I already have the socket which is still connected to the incoming line (I have physically checked).

bremen1874 · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:34

danlightbulb said:
Lots of disconnected wiring in the cabinet would tend to become very messy over time

Never seen the inside of a BT cabinet when they're working on it?

BT isn't going to be proactively disconnecting every cancelled line. They also aren't going to be shy about reallocating upstream wiring and equipment if they find that they need it for another customer.

If you want clarification about your specific situation phone the ISP and speak to them.

danlightbulb · 12 Aug 2020 at 22:42

They don't all seem to charge the activation fee. Plusnet do, BT and Vodafone don't seem to be.

Will just have to factor it in to my choice.

ljt · 13 Aug 2020 at 10:37

They don't use the same exchanges. Virgin do/did use the openreach network for their adsl packages for the areas where their network didn't reach but I'm not sure they even do that anymore.

If your old BT line is 10 years old the chances that its going to still be connected back to exchange are likely to be slim.

The only bit of wiring that is likely to be permanent is between where it enters your house and where it goes back to your distribution point (at top of a pole or underground in a junction box) Anything beyond that back to the cabinets and beyond to the exchange is most likely reused for someone else's lines over those years as people chop and change, go faulty etc over the years.

The cost will be a cover-all as it may just need connecting at the exchange and cabinet, or you may need an engineer visit to tone your line back from the socket to connect at the distribution point or cabinet.

Avalon · 13 Aug 2020 at 12:18

Yes they use separate networks, the ADSL service was grandfathered over from a previous acquisition of Virgin Mobile as part of the licence to use the brand in the telecoms/TV industry - Virgin didn’t want it (they had to contract TS to Fujitsu of all people which was problematic). The pairs will have likely been pulled at the cab, you can confirm this by plugging a phone in, NDT = no power = no active pair (ignore SOGEA, it wasn’t a thing 10 years ago). They will also update the faceplate to a current gen model and confirm the condition of a line that hasn’t been provisioned for a decade... nobody knows what state it will be in and if it needs a re-pull, they’ll do it (though depending on why and the type of crew needed, that may not be on the day). Either way, it’s a thing and you are paying it either directly or indirectly as OR charge the ISP for the service.

danlightbulb · 13 Aug 2020 at 12:29

Thanks. Im in two minds now on whether to push Virgin for a better deal or swap to BT landline.

Talk talk have what seems like an excellent deal on (Fibre BB + freeview HD box + amazon prime for a year @ £28 per month. Its going to be £20-25 just for the BB.

I think once Im out of the Virgin Media ecosystem I would have a lot of choice in the market, but at the same time a lot of these ISPs have poor customer service ratings.

Difficult.

bremen1874 · 13 Aug 2020 at 12:34

When you look at the ratings and actually read the justifications for many of the complaints you soon realise that...

Many people are idiots
Many people don't understand how broadband works

danlightbulb · 13 Aug 2020 at 12:56

Its such a crowded market, a lot of information overload here when looking for deals.

Freeview HD is available without needing an ISP to supply it. I would just need to buy my own box, but I was considering a new TV anyway so it would come built in then. My current TV is old so only has inbuilt non-HD freeview and no in built apps. But I could buy a stick.

Amazon prime is available independently, but Talk Talk's deal includes it for a year but the contract is for 18 months so for the last 6 months I'd have to add on £8 per month making it £36.

Maybe its still better to just get Broadband only. In which case if I could stick with Virgin for say £20 /mnth then I could choose what to add on myself, or get the new TV which has freeview HD built in already.

Too many options...

PiKe · 13 Aug 2020 at 13:22

If you go with plusnet when they're doing the reward card, you effectively get the activation fee back in the form of a prepaid mastercard.

danlightbulb · 13 Aug 2020 at 13:39

Ive just had the retention team call from Virgin.

The best price for Broadband only was £28, but they offered me the M100 broadband, basic TV, landline (not needed), free TV upgrade pass for the full 18 months, and 5GB mobile SIM (currently pay £10.50 per month for that) - all for £35 per month.

So given I was going to be paying around £25 for Broadband when I switch and £10 for my current SIM only phone contract anyway, that seems like a good deal. Basically getting TV and landline phone for free and no hassle of switching.

Saved around £30 per month all in.

gpuerrilla · 13 Aug 2020 at 15:02

The wonder of retentions!

Sometimes though they cant offer much. I have ditched many EE contracts that were up this year as the retentions wernt really competing with other providers.