Do managers really make a difference?

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 10:12

This is something that has bugged me over the last few years. The media seem to love talking about managers as if they actually make that much of a difference.

Take Guardiola for example, I assume he was a good player to play for Barcelona? So he wants to go into management and is fortunate enough to get a job coaching the youth/reserves(one of those). Inevitably does well as Barcelona are going to have the pick of the players, he then gets the first team job. Again Barcelona will of either had some world class players or access to buy the best up and coming talents. So what if his team played really nice football, he has some of the best players in the world and yet people lap it up like he is some sort of footballing god.

Now, I am just using him as an example but it just seems so bizarre to me when people place so much emphasis on managers like they have some huge impact on teams. Any one else feel the same?

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 10:18

Rroff said:
Yes they do - some managers for instance will spend hours pouring over say the opposition's goalies and what their weaknesses are and try and build tactics and get in players who can expose that with their particular style and so on.

Ok so why don’t one of these “great” managers go and prove themselves by winning the league with someone like Leicester, Stoke ect?

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 11:22

I think really a “good manager” is a product of having good resources/players available.

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 15:35

Shamikebab said:
What is in it for them? Greater risk, less pay. Sounds like a dumb career move to me.

The biggest evidence for quality of manager is look what Fergie did with a team that 3 months later Moyes turned into a mid table side.

Well that's what my argument is.. , "good manager"= good players.

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 16:17

DarkHorizon472 said:
The answer is yes but the need time and resources to make a proper impact. Man Utd were on the verge of sacking Ferguson early in his time there.

But it would be inevitable that anyone with time and enough resources will eventually be successful.

Bassmansam · 12 Oct 2017 at 17:32

nicktay2605 said:
Managers can make a huge difference imo. Look at teams that overachieve given their budget and the squad that they have. Of the current premier league managers I think Eddie Howe, Tony Pulis, Marco Silva and Rafa Benitez are all examples of managers making a difference. Bournemouth probably wouldn't be in PL without Eddie Howe, and the other three would struggle to compete without their respective managers. Sure, some managers spend a lot of money to be successful, but I still believe they are excellent managers. Imo part of being a good manager is identifying the weaknesses in your squad and having an idea of who you want to sign to fix it.

Also, if there was ever an example of a manager making a difference it would be SAF. Yes he spent quite a bit of money for his time, but in the latter years he had less money than Chelsea and City and also had to contend with European powerhouses like Real Madrid and Barcelona, yet United continued to be very successful. Some of the performances he got from what might be considered average players by United's standards was incredible.

Man Utd lost the champions league final to Barcelona when Ferguson was in charge, what’s the excuse there then ?

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 11:51

fez said:
I don't know why people think football managers are that different to any other job. Every who has worked for a long time at a number of different companies will have had good an bad managers. Companies are run into the ground, employees leave and the competition improves as others stagnate. Managers are partially responsible for this. Have a poor manager who doesn't make you feel valued, doesn't improve you or make you coming to work enjoyable and it shows.

Even in the smallest premier league teams you have a set of players worth millions and the carrot of staying in the PL with its prize money. Your manager can be your most important asset in that.

Look at how teams play with different managers. How can that not make a difference. Look at how United play now vs when we were under LvG. Managers pick players they want for the style of football they want to play. If that doesn't work they're first for the chop usually. High risk, high pay.

None of what you said provides a strong argument, you are being quite vague and you seem to have blind faith in your reasons. Man Utd finished 6th in the league last year, no better than what Van Gaal achieved, this season they are doing better as they have bought a proven premier league goal scorer in Lukaku. If you want to judge a managers greatness on his purchases then that is ok, but some managers have a huge advantage in this area.

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 13:24

Of course things have changed , moyes didnt have lukaku, pogba , matic for a start!

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 14:30

Shamikebab said:
No, he failed in his pursuit of high profile targets (most likely because they knew he was a melon), failed to get backup targets and ended up just buying a mostly useless Belgian, who he didn't even know how to use! It's taken Mourinho, a good manager to even understand how to get the best out of him.

So because the club failed to land a high profile player Moyes is a melon?

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 15:41

MissChief said:
Surely if he was 'mostly useless' he wouldn't be getting £100m a week at United, playing regularly and even scoring and winning matches?

Did you quote the wrong post?

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 16:09

nicktay2605 said:
United also lost 6-3 to Southampton, 6-1 to City, 4-0 to Middlesborough, etc, during Ferguson's time in charge, I don't really see your point. Every manager loses games, that's football. Ferguson was and still is the best manager I have ever seen at building teams year after year. Sure, we had some poor years by United standards where we only managed to finish third, but Ferguson always rebuilt the team and got them back to winning.

Also, imo part of being a good manager is good player recruitment. Mourinho won't have just told Woodward what positions he wanted sorted out this summer, he'll have given him specific targets having identified the weaknesses in the squad and the players that would be suitable to improve us.

Building a team when you have big resources isn’t rocket science is it?

My point is i do not understand why managers have so much emphasis placed on them by the media?

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 17:16

Shamikebab said:
There are quite a lot of things you don't understand which is becoming abundantly clear.

nothing you have said proves me wrong.

Bassmansam · 13 Oct 2017 at 17:22

Aneskimo said:
But it does take a certain type to last at a big resource club, Real Madrid is a prime example the standard is to compete for champions league and the league they have sacked managers who have come only second to Barcelona in the league or runners up in competition.

Edit: Mourinho is a winner but he has not lasted long at clubs because of how intense he gets, he alienated himself at most clubs due to his managerial ways that bring success, he also doesn’t nurture younger players but bring in proven players to get the job done, he pushed out De Bruyne and Lukaku just at Chelsea alone to win instantly

Well this kind of proves my point, he brings in the best players which in turn helps him win trophies. If that makes him a "good" manager then so be it. It doesn't seem like a particularly hard job though, yet the media bang on about it like these guys are some kind of genius.