Dodgy Traders

Third Opinion · 30 Jan 2007 at 19:52

My car sale is quickly becoming a saga.

I don't want much for my old Primera but peoples expectations are getting ridiculous. For under a grand they think they are going to get an under 10 year old, immaculate, low mileage, one owner vehicle that they will be able to resale in two years which is totally ridiculous. The car is fantastic even though it is showing 128,000. It really is immaculate for it's year, but it seems people buy speedometers not cars.

I had a couple of guys round on Saturday who I could hear whispering to each other about the the fully stamped service book. Then I heard the other one say it doesn't matter I have a spare. They also complained to each other about the digital speedo. Finally they came up with this ridiculous figure which I declined.

Since then I have had about three calls from people asking if the speedo was digital. I wonder why? When they find out it is they don't want it.

I rather hoped that vehicle clocking was a thing of the past but it looks like it might be alive and well.

Puzzled · 30 Jan 2007 at 20:12

Perhaps you've priced it too low so people think it's dodgy.

If all your getting is people looking to sell on for profit, then something is wrong with your advert. Be it price, or description.

SB118 · 30 Jan 2007 at 20:15

If anything digital speedos are easier to correct than mechanical units. No need to pull it out and play with the ratchets, just plug into the dataport and tamper away.

Third Opinion · 30 Jan 2007 at 20:48

MonkeyMan said:
Perhaps you've priced it too low so people think it's dodgy.

If all your getting is people looking to sell on for profit, then something is wrong with your advert. Be it price, or description.

I have priced it realistically. It is about hundred or so below book price. I priced it that way so I could hopefully sell it quickly. However it appears like you said to have attracted the wrong kind of people. You really can't win these days.

mattpc · 30 Jan 2007 at 21:03

Where's it advertised? Have you tried the local paper or is it just on autotrader?

Third Opinion · 30 Jan 2007 at 21:05

mattpc said:
Where's it advertised? Have you tried the local paper or is it just on autotrader?

Autotrader and Ebay. Ebay is just pathetic all you get is offers from divs who havent even seen it and want it for £200.

wassap · 30 Jan 2007 at 21:14

What year/model is it?

CypherPunk · 30 Jan 2007 at 21:19

It wouldn’t happen to be a gen 2 or 3 Primera would it? I seem to remember something about these being very easy to clock when I purchased my old Primera.

Third Opinion · 30 Jan 2007 at 21:23

SE model, 1998.

1 previous with full history. Spotless.

Here and it drives better than it looks.

http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nissan12vf4.jpg

SB118 · 30 Jan 2007 at 22:01

Oooh, looks shiney

[TW]Fox · 30 Jan 2007 at 22:04

Third Opinion said:
The car is fantastic even though it is showing 128,000. It really is immaculate for it's year, but it seems people buy speedometers not cars.

Too true - mileage is priority number 1 for most people when buying a car, often to the extreme that they'll buy a tatty 60k'er over your mint 128k'er for irrational, non-researched reasons based on nothing but assumption.

If people bought cars on condition clocking would go away overnight.

gc123 · 30 Jan 2007 at 23:58

SB118 said:
If anything digital speedos are easier to correct than mechanical units. No need to pull it out and play with the ratchets, just plug into the dataport and tamper away.

not on nissans...(in a previous life i had to check for tampering and most japanese are pull apart, if digital)

mattpc · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:02

I know ebay can be a bit of a "turder" (to use forum safe language!) but I had success with the Xantia on there. My method of selling was start the bidding at the minimum price I wanted and hope someone stuck it in. A taxi driver did and someone stuck another bid in against him and in the end I got an OK ish price. I think this is quite a good way of selling a car on there because it filters out the ideots who want an amazing car for nothing and leaves you with people who will commit sensible money for a decent car. Can we see the advert? Maybe then we could give you some sensible tips to help you shift it on quicker? I'm not saying your advert sucks just a fresh pair of eyes and all that?

Nathan · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:18

Clocking is very much still here. You only have to go down the scrappy to realise this, no steering wheels/clocks on low milage cars. My local scrappy two weeks ago where im waiting to ask the guys a question - 2 men walk in and ask if they have any 306 HDI dials which show below 50k and a decent steering wheel. Hmmmmm I wonder what they are up to. I mention theres a nice GTI6 leather one on a scrapped car but they wanted the original one, with their words "it ll look like its been changed then" Gays.

[TW]Fox · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:20

I encountered at least two clocked cars when looking for mine - you can see why they do it why when you take two identical cars the one with 120k is worth £8k and the one with 30k is worth £15k and you can barely tell them apart

mattpc · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:23

[TW]Fox said:
Too true - mileage is priority number 1 for most people when buying a car, often to the extreme that they'll buy a tatty 60k'er over your mint 128k'er for irrational, non-researched reasons based on nothing but assumption.

If people bought cars on condition clocking would go away overnight.

It's wonderful isn't it? NOT. I suppose I should be grateful because it means bargains for the educated but it just annoys me too much. I suppose I get really cheesed off because people always comment on the "amazing cars" that I have and claim that I'm rich, earn too much money blah blah blah. I don't- I frequently take home not much more than minimum wage but I choose to spend my car money on in my opinion gorgeous motors that are unloved usually because they are not cosmetically perfect or high miles. Me and the wife both drive high mile jap cars now and as you know in the past I've had high mile xantias. Sure I spent a bit on maintaining them but I reckon the ammount of cash I spent on them per year was about what you'd pay anyway for a newer car if you were clocking up the miles I did. I got all the comfort, prestige and enjoyment out of the cars without any of the financial worry, leaving it unattended and heartache when it was scratched concerns.

For my next rant......

The ideots who expect to pay nothing and get every from autotrader ads and e*ay......

It works like this (not always in practise of course but this the theory)

If you want a cheap car then you pay trade price and get peanuts in the way of warranty, comeback etc. You take the car as it is described unless deviating significantly from the way the bod told you it was. This is why it is cheap. There's not necessarily anything wrong with it but there is not gurantee, hence it is cheap

If you want a car (not better by default) that comes with warranty and a level of after care service you buy it from a dealer. The dealer is obliged to provide a decent service and if he does not you seek decent legal representation.

You are not going to get trade price from a dealer (unless he's clearing out the part ex's !) and you are not going to get a warranty from a trade price car or private seller. Realise this and make your choices/budget accordingly...

Don't even get me started on the evil little tools in the motor trade who claim that they are selling at trade price when in reality the price is between full retail and private.... A certain autotrader advertiser springs to mind but anyone who looks on there reguarly will probably know who I mean. These ideots that host essentially fake auctions and fill their websites with terms and conditions saying the cars are "as is" are the worst. Not only do they conclusively NOT sell you cars at trade price (I know this because I have offered trade price for cars when I've needed one and been refused) they don't give any warranty. Therefore they essentially offer you trade conditions at a price point which is in between trade and full retail. This must be how they run their business. I don't have a problem with that a such my problem is that they advertise that they sell at trade price, claim to be clearing out liquidation stock but in reality they probably just buy there stock down the auction like everyone else.... This is most misleading.

Carshaft and the likes well I can't even be bothered.... The heap of PLOP they sold my parents was just out of this world. The thing came with a phoney balony 12 months warranty but had clearly been shunted up the backside and was an auction fodder shed they had polished up. Just proves that glossy advertising and worthless warranties will get you everywhere..

I don't work in the motor trade but I am intrerested in cars and used to have access to motor trade pricing information. My rantings are based on my own dealings with buying and selling my cars. I have owned a few cars over the years....

Rant over.

mattpc · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:24

[TW]Fox said:
I encountered at least two clocked cars when looking for mine - you can see why they do it why when you take two identical cars the one with 120k is worth £8k and the one with 30k is worth £15k and you can barely tell them apart

It also explains some of the prices BCA et al obtain at auction for these vehicles (private punters aside).

[TW]Fox · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:26

mattpc said:
It also explains some of the prices BCA et al obtain at auction for these vehicles (private punters aside).

Thats what happened to one I was after - I'd traced its history via BMW, etc etc - it had 143k on it, was prepared to go to about £6k tops...

it sold for nearly £7k. Then appeared on Autotrader with 90k miles at £9995...

mattpc · 31 Jan 2007 at 00:32

[TW]Fox said:
Thats what happened to one I was after - I'd traced its history via BMW, etc etc - it had 143k on it, was prepared to go to about £6k tops...

it sold for nearly £7k. Then appeared on Autotrader with 90k miles at £9995...

I never used to understand it and then one day it clicked. The trouble is I bet it looked really credible to a lot of people. I doubt from a cosmetic or drivealbe point of view it would feel any different- certainly not to your average punter. I guess we all like to think that the old fashioned scams have gone away but in reality they just manifest themselves in slightly different ways.

v0n · 31 Jan 2007 at 01:55

I can certainly see why people are attracted to cars with less than 100k on the clock. In fact, now that I think of it I can't remember a single car I had with 100k+ on the clock that wouldn't give me grief to some extent regardless of how new it was.

At some point enough was enough. Now between newer car with high mileage and older car with lower mileage I will almost always pick lower mileage over reg plate.
Two reasons for it.
First - full service book or not we all know fleets don't service high mileage cars properly and private owners do it even less. Fleet drivers don't give monkeys and fleet managers care even less. It's just easier to have a contracted garage do an oil change and stamp service books than actually go through proper service every 6 weeks on a fleet car with every 3rd service being major with all the liquids and fluids replaced as manufacturer suggests. Hell - I know of "main" dealers that produce books full of stamps if original is lost without even pretending it bothers them and believe me - many of them will stamp a rogue book for few notes slipped under beer coaster down at the pub. That's the state of trade. Always was, always will be without any kind of nationwide milage and service check methods.

As for private owners - most of you who ever done high mileages know that right after the car is out of warranty because of its mileage you start questioning neccessity of going through £250+ "oil changes" at main dealer and local garage offers from weekly rags with voucher for a quick QwikParts filter and no thrills oil wipe about @ £30 begins to look more and more attractive.
There are just some things that don't occur together in real world - like pretty and intelligent Essex girls. Or high mileage and properly serviced fleet car.

Second reason is improbability of so called "genuine motorway mileage". Motorway mileage these days only means city start and stop with higher revs and more swearing. You know it's true.

Then there are additional factors - like the "I swear this is all genuine, car has never ever been mistreated guv" sellers and then you discover they only had that car for last few thousand miles and V5 lists almost as many previous owners as there are stamps in service book. It's a cliche, equivalent of "used virgin Thai bride for sale" advert.

I hope one day I will be proven wrong. I hope one day I will have a chance to see a high mileage motor that actually drives better than its few years older but lower mileage counterpart but until then, japanese or german, 1 fleet owner or 10 - my autotrader filter is set at 80k or less. I do high mileages and can't afford to have a car that fails to take me where I'm going even for few days. It would take a lot to swing my vote, I would need to know the car, know the driver or see a genuine owner with a pile of receipts from the last X years. Fox likes to throw occasional "grab a bargain" banner but he knows very well how hard it is to find fully verifiable high miler in good nick, he was at it for months, was ready to give up and even his car had already his share of major surgeries which could prove the whole adventure expensive if he wasn't wise enough to find a high miler under warranty (and that's like a UFO sighting)...