Domain renewal period and ownership question

Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:22

I friend has a domain name up for renewal on 17th Sept and he wants to transfer to another company but his current host says he must pay £117 for a years hosting and domain renewal first.

If a transfer only takes 24/48 hours, why is not allowed to transfer away?

Another issue is the fact that the host registered the domain in his own name. I didn't realise this was still allowed. Is it? Should it be?

Any info would be helpful as he's asked me to deal with the host and then help put a site together.

Cheers.

Adz · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:24

His host is full of it. If you post the domain I'll see if I can offer some advice

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Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:33

I've just discovered that he/I can force a transfer by going directly to Nominet as it's a .co.uk

zencroft.co.uk is the domain in question and you will obviously glean the 'owners' details from that.

Adz · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:36

Yup he can do exactly that

. Good luck, let us know how you get on. Shouldn't be too tricky. I deal with a number of these every week so if you need any guidance, let me know.

Definitely don't give £117 to the pondlife trying to hold your domain to ransom unless contractually obligated.

Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:42

But what about the period of notice? If I remember correctly, one host I used would not allow a transfer out after the renewal date came, which is understandable but this guy still has almost a month left.

Adz · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:45

Nominet will let you force a tag change even after the domain has expired - the tag holder they're moving to then pays the renewal fee. There's nothing the old host can do to stop you provided the domain is in your name.

Your contract with the old host is an entirely separate issue of course. They may require more than 1 month notice to cancel. Still doesn't stop you moving the domain

.

Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:50

Interesting. I'll ask matey boy to dig out any paperwork and scour the site for t & cs.

Thanks for the help. I'd send Kharma but we don't have that facility on here

Adz · 22 Aug 2006 at 11:53

Glad to help

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Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 12:01

I'm really just thinking out load here but feel free to comment...

3.4 This agreement duration is 12 months minimum or 24 months in the case of domain registration only service.

3.4.1 Unless notified 30 days prior to the 12 months or 24 months renewal date, the contract will automatically be renewed, once payment is received, for a further 12 or 24 month period.

3.4.2 You must pay all Fees for the Services until the date on which the agreement expires.

3.4.3 Renewing this agreement implies that you have read and understood the latest terms and conditions available on our website at the time of renewal.

3.5 Either party may terminate this Agreement immediately, on notice, if the other commits a material breach of this Agreement and fails to remedy the breach within 28 days of a written notice to do so. 3.5 Either party may terminate this Agreement immediately, on notice, if the other commits a material breach of this Agreement and fails to remedy the breach within 28 days of a written notice to do so.

However, the following paragraph states...

4. DOMAIN REGISTRATION SERVICES

Domain Names are registered by Freezone with the relevant Naming Authority under the Customer's details given at time of registration. Once Freezone have accepted the order for domain registration by the Customer, the Domain Name is the property of the Customer for a minimum of two years and cannot be revoked. The Customer shall maintain all future registration payments for their Domain Name until such time that written notice of cancellation is submitted to Freezone fourteen days prior to the renewal date. Otherwise Freezone will charge or invoice all Customers that have purchased a new Domain name through Freezone on expiry of their current registration period.Freezone Customers can transfer their registered domain name from Freezone to another hosting company at any time. Freezone will charge an administration fee of £49.99 + VAT to effect the transfer. Freezone will endeavour to process all transfers on which the administration fee has been paid within 5 working days of the written request from the customer.

So although they clearly state that they charge for transfer, are they not in breach of their own agreement by registering the domain in the host company's owner's name?

mmmm...curious!

Adz · 22 Aug 2006 at 12:29

Damn, I completely missed that part. The domain is registered in the hosting provider's name? If that is the case Nominet won't force the tag transfer. It's still worth contacting them but your next port of call should probably be a solicitor if you don't want to pay the £117.

Gobbledegeek · 22 Aug 2006 at 12:35

Yes, the big issue is the 'official' owner is the guy that runs the hosting company and as such, you are correct in saying that Nominet won't force it.

However, their own terms state that they register in the client's name. I'm hoping that as they registered it in their own name that it constitutes a breach of their own terms but I suppose a solicitor will be needed to sort it out.

I was never keen on his business name anyway, perhaps I'll suggest he changes it

Beansprout · 22 Aug 2006 at 20:33

That is a ****** situation to be in and extremely cheeky.

So although they clearly state that they charge for transfer, are they not in breach of their own agreement by registering the domain in the host company's owner's name?

Correct. Point that out to them nicely and they may cave in. Good luck

lookitsjonno · 22 Aug 2006 at 23:06

that is shocking

i'm afraid there is nothing you can do other than:

a. pay up
b. let the domain expire and rereg it for £5 when it gets deleted

Jonno.

lookitsjonno · 22 Aug 2006 at 23:10

i'd also state that for the £117 you want the domain transferred into your name.

Jonno.

Gobbledegeek · 23 Aug 2006 at 02:29

Beansprout said:
That is a ****** situation to be in and extremely cheeky.

Correct. Point that out to them nicely and they may cave in. Good luck

This is my opinion. I will word them a very clear and concise letter but keep it very polite and see what they have to say.

jonno.co.uk said:
that is shocking

i'm afraid there is nothing you can do other than:

a. pay up
b. let the domain expire and rereg it for £5 when it gets deleted

Actually, there seem to be several options, some less ethical than others

Thanks for the advice/encouragement.

stoofa · 23 Aug 2006 at 11:52

Ethical options or not - these options are greatly reduced if the domain name is not registered in your name.
Nominet won't just transfer a domain on anybody's say-so.
So if it is indeed in the name of the hosting company then your options are very much limited to paying up or allowing the domain to expire unfortunately.

Once again the "in hindsight" warning should be mentioned.
Never tie your domain names in with hosting deals.
Always get your domains safely in an account you have full control over at one of the many holding/parking companies out there, for example 123-reg.co.uk or similar.
Then treat your hosting package as a totally different service - no host worth their salt will demand you transfer the domain to them before hosting and if they do walk away.

Gobbledegeek · 23 Aug 2006 at 12:09

stoofa said:
Ethical options or not - these options are greatly reduced if the domain name is not registered in your name.
Nominet won't just transfer a domain on anybody's say-so.
So if it is indeed in the name of the hosting company then your options are very much limited to paying up or allowing the domain to expire unfortunately.

Once again the "in hindsight" warning should be mentioned.
Never tie your domain names in with hosting deals.
Always get your domains safely in an account you have full control over at one of the many holding/parking companies out there, for example 123-reg.co.uk or similar.
Then treat your hosting package as a totally different service - no host worth their salt will demand you transfer the domain to them before hosting and if they do walk away.

Good advice. As I said, it's a friend's problem and he is sadly not very 'worldly wise' when it comes to technical issues. Funilly enough, way way back in the nineties, I got my first domain free with host and experienced much the same problems when it came to renewal. Suffice to say I never made the mistake again.

The problem is that these domain/hosting tied-in deals sound great to the niaive or uninitiated and it's only years later that they discover why the deal appeared so good in the first place.

Beansprout · 23 Aug 2006 at 13:04

Dried Graze said:
The problem is that these domain/hosting tied-in deals sound great to the niaive or uninitiated and it's only years later that they discover why the deal appeared so good in the first place.

There are only a few companies that do this (all homnest companies who offer this sort of thing will (shoukd?) register domains in your name) and commonly they're also the ones with extorniotate pricing. Always always read the small print, especially on the intarweb when you don't really know who you're buying from (as opposed to a shop, for example)

Gobbledegeek · 23 Aug 2006 at 18:57

How I chortled when having sent my friend an e-mail regarding his options and my opinion of this host, the e-mails promptly began to bounce back. He says he can receive mail from others just not me and I can send to anyone except him. Mmmmm.....I wonder if it could be related?!?