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Donald Trump

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by wez130, Dec 19, 2019.

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  1. Kyo

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 5,318

    Trump didnt know or he did and chose to dismiss it out of petty spite? Surely not.

     
  2. Gerard

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 32,132

    Location: Ireland

    Bit ironic someone with the name Tango is a fan of an orange skinned president.
     
  3. Colonel_Klinck

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 2,518

    Location: London, UK

    Don’t take medical advice from an orange fool

     
  4. Flibster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 31,822

  5. timmeh

    Mobster

    Joined: May 20, 2010

    Posts: 3,993

    Location: Englishman in the USA

    Go on Twitter, search for Dr Fauci and then read some of the tweets criticising him and their replies. I’ll be amazed if we stay under 200k deaths.

    Trump needs to be echoing the advice the people he’s put in charge are giving. The only people these MAGA types listen to is Trump, everyone else is deep state in their eyes.

    There are people around me who are just carrying on as normal, I looked out earlier and people are letting their kids all meet up and hang out. Social distancing is non-existent.

    I wouldn’t really give a **** but my wife is a nurse so is going to be exposed to it at some point if she hasn’t already. We can’t just stay inside away from all the morons.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2020
  6. Flibster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 31,822

    Yeah, they're frankly barking...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/28/technology/coronavirus-fauci-trump-conspiracy-target.html

    He's now got a security detail because of these utter ****wits sending death threats.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/politics/anthony-fauci-security-detail/index.html

    Insane.
     
  7. tang0

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003

    Posts: 3,780

  8. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,309

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    They chose to take a substance they knew to be toxic (they were using it for that purpose, which is why they had it). They obviously didn't check doses for humans, assuming that their fish parasite killer did only contain chloroquine and nothing else toxic. Blaming Trump for their actions is unreasonable. He didn't advise people to eat unspecified quantities of products sold for the purpose of killing parasites in fish. "a small amount" isn't good enough when it comes to taking drugs. "a small amount" of many drugs will kill you. A single gram of codeine, for example, can be fatal.
     
  9. chroniclard

    Capodecina

    Joined: Apr 23, 2014

    Posts: 15,632

    Location: Hertfordshire

    They knew about it because Trump has mentioned it. How is it not on him?
     
  10. Kyo

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 5,318

    Amazing few posts up he saying "what have u got a to lose" and you post that?? Are you really that blind?
     
  11. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,309

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    Eh? How does that make sense? He mentioned a drug after a study was released showing it had some effect as a treatment for covid-19. Two people chose to ingest an uncontrolled quantity of a pesticide which contains that substance (and what else?). That's their decision, not his. He didn't advise people to ingest unspecified quantities of pesticide.

    I have mentioned codeine. If someone was to eat a pesticide containing codeine and unspecified other substances (is there such a thing?) and died because they ate a pesticide, would you blame me for their actions? If someone ate just codeine but too much of it and died from the overdose, would you blame me for their actions? Would you blame yourself, since you quoted my mention of codeine? Would you blame the company that manufactured this keyboard I am using? Or would you blame Trump anyway because reasons?
     
  12. Flibster

    Caporegime

    Joined: Oct 18, 2002

    Posts: 31,822

    Yup.

    Funny that...
     
  13. tang0

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003

    Posts: 3,780

    They didn't take Hydroxychloroquine, they took a FISH TANK CLEANER that contained CHLOROQUINE PHOSPHATE

    NOT EVEN THE SAME THING
     
  14. Kyo

    Soldato

    Joined: Oct 11, 2003

    Posts: 5,318

     
  15. tang0

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003

    Posts: 3,780

    Hilarious, keep posting videos and quotes of Trump recommending a drug that is showing huge promise at the moment which ISN'T a fish tank cleaner that contains Chloroquine Phosphate, because no one should ingest a fish tank cleaner containing Chloroquine Phosphate
     
  16. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,309

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    It's "funny" that you're blaming a person saying that a medicinal drug that has already been tested on humans and passed as safe to use on humans is safe to use on humans for people choosing to eat unspecified amounts of a pesticide and cleaning product containing that drug (who who knows what else). An uncontrolled dose of it mixed with who knows how much of who knows what else.

    You mentioned codeine (quoting me). Codeine is metabolised to morphine. Overdosing on substances containing morphine kills some people. Are you to blame for those people dying? If not, why not? Why don't you blame yourself?
     
  17. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,309

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    As a side note, the study showing chloroquine to be effective against covid-19 was flawed. It's not much more than anecdote. Worth looking into and it might be useful, but I wouldn't say it's showing huge promise.
     
  18. tang0

    Mobster

    Joined: Jun 12, 2003

    Posts: 3,780

    Hydroxychloroquine rated 'most effective therapy' by doctors for coronavirus: Global survey

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/2/hydroxychloroquine-rated-most-effective-therapy-do/

    Amazing how everyone on the TDS side has immediately jumped on the bandwagon of Trump recommended it so therefore we have to condemn it in every way possible. Even when people take a completely different thing altogether. It's like watching children with oppositional defiant disorder
     
  19. Angilion

    Man of Honour

    Joined: Dec 5, 2003

    Posts: 17,309

    Location: Just to the left of my PC

    And where is the clinical evidence to support the claim? What you've posted is a multiple choice opinion poll and we don't even know what the other choices were. Or how the questions were asked.

    So far there have been 2 tiny medical studies on the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine against covid-19. The first study indicated that it was sometimes useful, but the study was highly flawed in multiple ways. The second study indicated that it was no more useful than nothing. Both studies were so small that they're not statistically significant. The sample size is simply too small. They're both very hasty initial looks at it to see if maybe it's worth looking at it properly.

    EDIT: I found the complete report of the opinion poll you linked to. It's not how it's being portrayed. Doctors were asked their belief (not knowledge, not evidence, just belief) about which from a list of 15 possible treatments was the most effective therapy for covid-19. I stress again this was an opinion poll about beliefs. Any claim that it's evidence of efficiacy of treatment is wrong. But even the results of the opinion poll are misleadingly presented.

    The poll offered 15 possible treatments to doctors and asked them to choose what they believed to be the most effective. Just belief. Not evidence.

    Two-thirds of the doctors refused to answer that question.

    I think that's important. They knew the question was wrong.

    From the minority of doctors who answered the question, the number of answers was 2.18 times the number of doctors. So most, maybe even all, of them were suggesting a combination of options.

    So the opinion poll returns the result that 37% (of the 35% of doctors who answered the question) chose hydroxychloroquine as what they believed to be either the most effective option from the list of 15 or (far more likely) one of the most effective options, used in combination with something else.

    37%? Not a bad score in a poll. But not anything like what the headline you quoted claimed. Which is probably another one of the reasons why 65% of the doctors who agreed to fill out this opinion poll refused to answer that question - they knew it would be used in a misleading way.

    But anyway, 37% is more than 0% It's something. It's not nothing.

    But take a look at what came in 2nd in this poll. It is nothing. 32% of the doctors polled expressed the belief that nothing was the most effective therapy. So no therapy at all was rated almost as highly as hydroxychloroquine.

    31% of them expressed the belief that the most effective therapy from that list was acetaminophen aka paracetamol.

    So you've put forward an opinion poll as if it was proper evidence, you chosen a question that was so obviously bad that 2/3rds of the doctors who answered the other questions refused to answer that one and you've misrepresented the results anyway. Poor show.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2020
  20. Colonel_Klinck

    Mobster

    Joined: Oct 3, 2007

    Posts: 2,518

    Location: London, UK

    The reason everyone is jumping on Trump is because he is giving what could well be bad advice and or false hope. Let the doctors like Dr Fauci deal with medicine, let them do proper clinical trials. Everyone wants a drug, a treatment than can help. Running his mouth off about things he has zero understanding of is just stupid. If someone was looking for advice on how to borrow money from banks then default on those loan and try and sue the banks they wouldn't go to Dr Fauci would they? They'd go to Trump, it's his area of expertise. If you are looking for advice on infectious disease and the treatment of those diseases you don't go to a dodgy real estate reality TV star do you? You go to a doctor and the very best doctor you can find.
     
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