Driving on snow/ice

[tzang]

Had my first real challenge in driving on snow and ice tonight on the M2 (I was suppose to head to Kent but was forced to go back to London as conditions worsened). Road conditions were initially fine with light sleet which gradually worsened. I didn't really pay attention as I travelled at 75mph on cruise control and it didn't bother me.

After entering Kent, the road had some small white patches, which yet again, with me being an idiot, didn't really pay attention to. After overtaking a gritting lorry that was hogging the middle lane I felt the car judder whilst losing and gaining speed at random. At this point, I knew that one or more of the wheels was losing grip whilst plowing through the M2 at 75mph, cruise control unable to decide whether to accelerate or brake and the Mondeo on the middle lane wondering what the hell I was doing as I started to slide towards him at one point (loss grip on all four wheels at one point and yes, I am an idiot)

The BMW driver behind me still insisted on keeping up with me at 75mph until I switched on my hazard warning lights and the driver finally got the message of the approaching danger when his car twitched towards the central reservation. From there onwards, the middle and outer lane was pretty much undriveable with the inside lane starting to show signs of danger (grit lorries haven't reached pass Junction 4 at the time). Driving at 40mph was nearly impossible.

As I exited Junction 5 and took the flyover to head the other way, I saw a car swerve and crash onto the embankment on the hard shoulder (car was on the M2, I was on the flyover) A patrol car nearby quickly stopped to assist the driver, who was only in shock but not hurt. 2 more patrol cars got there before I rejoined the M2 towards London. What should have taken less than an hour to get home took nearly 3 hours as I drove like an OAP.


My main question for this thread is: How would you go around driving on snow or ice if it suddenly hits you? I wasn't expecting it, there was no weather warnings issued either.

I'm obviously inexperienced in these conditions and would appreciate some sort of guidance due to a rather unpleasant experience earlier today (obvious solutions like "don't drive in these conditions" won't work when it is necessary for me to get to a particular destination ). Winter tyres would come in handy but it is April... you can't be serious about sticking them on or carrying it with you when you are half way through your journey.

 

[Mickey_D]

<------ live with snow and ice 6 months of the year.

Slowing down is the first and primary thing to do. For two reasons.

1. Braking distances are greatly reduced due to lack of traction (duh!!). Slowing down gives you more time to react to situations, and also gives ABS more time to stop you.

2. You tyres cannot keep up with trying to push the snow into the treads when you get above a certain speed. That speed will depend on your tyres, the type snow, the weight of your car, the road surface under the snow, etc. You'll know if you've exceeded that speed. The car you saw at Junction 5 quite obviously exceeded that speed.

Another thing to remember is to drive like there is a full wine glass of champagne sitting on your dashboard and you don't want to spill a drop. All actions HAVE to be slow and smooth. Easy, smooth turns on the steering wheel, gentle applications of both the brakes and the throttle, etc. If you're downshifting, remember to rap the throttle so that you're not trying to rev the engine up through friction on the tyres. You want the engine to already be spinning at the same speed as the tranny when the clutch engages. Otherwise your front tyres will drag across the ground making you lose control until the engine finally catches up......

 

[chopchop]

try driving on compacted snow (aka ICE), i think a lot of people went to play with their cars in the snow last time we had a load of it, fun driving about and being able to wheelspin in any gear at 20-30mph

what should you have done in your situation? well slow down and if the roads hadnt been gritted go park in the services/layby and wait for it to get done.

 

[Baron G]

Also, if you drive a 4 wheel drive vehicle, remember this only helps with traction. It will in no way improve your ability to stop or go round corners, so slow down like everyone else.

 

[Matt82]

use common sense?

 

[thebrasso]

Am I right in thinking that with cruise control if you apply either accelerator or brake it will switch off? I'd have definitely applied the brakes just slightly and let the car deaccelerate a little bit once conditions got bad.

When the road conditions get poor (either due to visibility or surface water/snow/ice) going a little slower is definitely the way. Give yourself more time to react.

 

[paradigm]

After overtaking a gritting lorry that was hogging the middle lane

I hope to god that rolleyes was at yourself, seeing as the gritter would only be able to grit the ENTIRE motorway if it was sat in the middle of it!

 

[vanandjuanunited]

Why not drive according to the conditions. If its snowing slow down. Simple.

 

[timbob]

Indeed - the reason they "hog" the middle lane is so they can grit all 3 lanes of the motorway equally.

This is a prime example of why I think speed cameras and the associated numerical maximum speed limits are a really bad idea. The OP obviously was firmly in the belief that in travelling at 70mph (or just over) he was perfectly safe - regardless of the prevailing conditions. And as I read it, continued driving obliviously through trecherous conditions despite the car beginning to slide and lose control. And only realised that he wasn't traveling safely anymore when he almost crashed.

People should realise that just because the speed limit for the road is X doesn't mean it's safe to travel that fast. On a quiet, warm summers afternoon, 100mph might easily be a safe speed, but on the day like yesterday 40mph or so might be the maximum speed.

[edit] This isn't a dig at the OP - just a comment that the "speed kills" is teaching people the wrong message about road safety. There is no education about driving to the conditions anymore, merely a numerical speed limit, so according to what he has been taught - the OP was entirely correct in his actions. Which is a very, very bad thing.

 

[burns]

You should never leave cruise on in snow or ice, it usually says this in the car manual. As you found out it gets very confused if wheels start spinning. The main thing though is just to slow down and get into an appropriate lane for your new speed. You don't want to be having some idiot flying up behind you when you going slowly on ice.

 

[agw_01]

Coming back from Birmingham last weekend, I was sat in the outside lane of the M6 doing roughly 80-85mph. Nice steady speed keeping up with traffic.

Next thing, the heavens opened and the motorway turned into a field of mist. What did I do? Dropped to the inside lane and adjusted my speed accordingly. I was quite happy to cruise along at 50mph while the idiots in the outside lane were still shooting past at 80mph, even though visibility and road conditions were very bad.

I'm not calling you an idiot )) as you noticed the condition change and adjusted your speed before it caught you out... I just wish everybody was like that.

Oh, my dad was telling about what he saw on Saturday evening after dropping my sister off back at home (very heavy hailstone). An Evo in the hard shoulder facing the wrong direction and on the other carriageway, a Porsche which had decided to plough into the central reservation

 

[tzang]

wheelspin in any gear at 20-30mph

I think I was wheel spinning at 75mph when I lost grip on all 4 wheels at one point

I hope to god that rolleyes was at yourself

Obviously.

You should never leave cruise on in snow or ice, it usually says this in the car manual. As you found out it gets very confused if wheels start spinning. The main thing though is just to slow down and get into an appropriate lane for your new speed. You don't want to be having some idiot flying up behind you when you going slowly on ice.

The car manual says nothing about that... it is from Vauxhall after all The Mondeo driver next to me probably had a scare when I was fighting to keep my car in control and nearly crashed into it whilst the BMW driver behind me probably didn't know the word death until his car started to lose control.

I'm not calling you an idiot as you noticed the condition change and adjusted your speed before it caught you out... I just wish everybody was like that.

As I admitted several times, I am an idiot and I don't mind being called an idiot on this occasion (and no bashing my Corsa either ). I only noticed that my speed was a primary problem when the car started to lose control, you can say I'm fortunate to be let off this time without any incident as conditions changed quite far back (at Junction 2) before I took appropriate action (at Junction 3, about 4 miles later). With my 2 years experience on the road, I have to admit I've never driven in conditions like these before, it's like sticking a newly passed driver onto the motorway, you get no experience whatsoever whilst being a learner as you are not allowed on the motorway and the only way to get any experience is to go on it yourself or taking advanced courses.

 

[Psymonkee]

Does anyone remember the 12th of March? And the weather that day heading North on the M6?

I left J12 at about 11.30am and it took me 7 hours to get back home.

Most of the M6 from J25 onward had snow in the outside lane and quite often there was snow into the middle lane. Past J35 started getting very very hairy indeed and I should probably have stopped. The signs even said

'A74(M) Northbound closed'

But like a fool I plundered on. I had been in touch with my parents (Bluetooth Headset was a godsend) to find out about road closures and they said the A74(M) was closed at J17. No problem I thought.

Crossed the border into Scotland, J22 passes and 1/2 a mile up the road is a traffic jam The M-Way was closed up ahead at the turnoff to the Gretna Green Services. Traffic was being redirected back down the Motorway or was just stopping in the services.

My parents found me a way out of it that had me heading North by following the B7076 which runs parallel to the M-Way

A fair bit further up however I managed to get back on the Motorway and get going again only to catch a huge tailback at J15. A few quick calls found me the next link to the B7076 which by this point was jam full of cars and everyone else trying to do the same thing.

Changed plans and headed through Moffat on the A713 (I think) and kept on going. Very very snowy roads and few cars at all. Had to stop at one point while a National Express bus tried to back down a slope as it got stuck. Kept on that road and eventually found the A703. A winding road about 6 - 7 miles long across the top of a large hill.

That was covered in frozen snow. Of course by this time I had picked up a convoy \0/ After what seemed like forever getting across all the snow I finally rejoined the B7076 which was strangely empty. 10 miles later and back onto the Motorway and finally got home but it was some journey.

Not something I want to do again in any kind of hurry.


As for advice. Very slow in as high a gear as possible and smooth gentle steering and braking seems to be the way

 

[b0rn2sk8]

I had a similar insodent about a week ago when i was coming off the 'Hampton' rounderbout in Peterborough. Road conditions were dry, it was cloudy but visability was good.

The front wheels of my Corrola just lost all grip, i was just able to keep inside my lane until the grip came back a second later. I was not going to fast, it was the middle of rush hour. But iv noticed there are some skiddy surface signs up now(temporary ones, which are prity useless imo if your in the righ hand lane as you cant see them if there is a car along side you). Must be some oil or the road has become very degraded which i was not expecting.


But having said that somone goes off on that corner every month, the central devider is extreemly bent and there are bits of bumber/body work all down that section of road. But i dont think anyone has every been hurt, probaly why they have never bothered sorting the road out, which suprises me really as it is a really busy rounderbout.

Needless to say it was a shock i was not expecting on the way to work in the morning....

 

[DRZ]

Most of the required ground has already been covered but isnt it obvious that travelling at 75mph is rather unsafe when in those conditions? I expected a more technical discussion when I opened the thread!

You were given a HUGE clue that conditions were worsening by that gritter "hogging the middle lane"

Common sense!

The first time I ever drove on snow/ice I was mega-careful but on Xmas day 2004 I pulled onto the M53 expecting it to have been gritted - It hadnt! It was like an ice rink, totally lethal!

I just pulled off the motorway and took the back way there along gritted roads!