Dubious Justice - can anyone explain?

Dis86

Dis86

Dis86

Caporegime
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So, this lovely individual has just been given a suspended sentence.

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

Failed asylum seeker threatened to burn down flat while paramedics were inside

Ali Raswli was annoyed with the Home Officer when he tried to light a duvet inside his home, while medical staff were trying to help him
www.chroniclelive.co.uk www.chroniclelive.co.uk

This is for actively trying to set a council provided flat on fire with himself and emergency workers inside, threatening to do so on another occasion, trespass on a railway and resisting arrest.

This weirdo was just jailed for threatening to set fire to a petrol station.


This fine specimen was jailed for suggesting someone should set a fire at an asylum hotel.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mansfield man who called for hotel attack jailed

John England pleaded guilty to stirring up racial hatred with his Facebook posts.
www.bbc.co.uk

Why are people who are threatening to do something given a greater sentence than someone who actually does it, and other crimes?
 
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Probably something to do with this:

England, who has seven previous convictions for motoring offences, criminal damage, and drugs, was handed a 20-month jail term, of which he will serve half before being released on licence.
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It was also made very clear that those involved in rioting or inciting racial hatred online during that period would be dealt with more swiftly and severely.

As always, context is everything in these cases, and trying to compare sentences on a like-for-like basis doesn't really work.
 
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John England

Fbewjbc.jpeg
 
Zefan said:
Because we, disgracefully, have two tier policing in this country.
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Nah. Multi tier policing is expected. Can't treat everyone the same in every varying situation.

What is, has, and always will be two tier, is the law and how certain people get more access or more leniency based on social status and/or means to pay for better representation.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Probably something to do with this:



It was also made very clear that those involved in rioting or inciting racial hatred online during that period would be dealt with more swiftly and severely.

As always, context is everything in these cases, and trying to compare sentences on a like-for-like basis doesn't really work.
Click to expand...

How does that explain petrol station boy?

Why should what day of the week you commit a crime determine your sentence? Surely sentences should be based upon the severity of what you did and your past offending?
 
Ayahuasca said:
Probably something to do with this:



It was also made very clear that those involved in rioting or inciting racial hatred online during that period would be dealt with more swiftly and severely.

As always, context is everything in these cases, and trying to compare sentences on a like-for-like basis doesn't really work.
Click to expand...

The other bloke waving a lighter around a petrol pump and threatening people has previous for violent offences too by the look of it.

Dis86 said:
How does that explain petrol station boy?
Click to expand...

www.dailypost.co.uk

Man jailed for biting policemen after abusing railway staff

Steven Paul Johnson, 45, who was said to have 105 convictions for 220 offences, was locked up for six months
www.dailypost.co.uk www.dailypost.co.uk

It wouldn't surprise me if there's more examples if someone was so inclined to spend more time on Google

Edit - here he is again, breaching a criminal behaviour order and spitting at police:

www.dailypost.co.uk

Man spat at police officer after being caught breaking lockdown rules

Steven Paul Johnson appeared before magistrates following the incident in Bangor
www.dailypost.co.uk www.dailypost.co.uk

One might even consider a homeless person offending so regularly is perhaps actually trying to get prison sentences in a misguided attempt to get off the street for a while.
 
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Ayahuasca said:
Probably something to do with this:



It was also made very clear that those involved in rioting or inciting racial hatred online during that period would be dealt with more swiftly and severely.

As always, context is everything in these cases, and trying to compare sentences on a like-for-like basis doesn't really work.
Click to expand...
So severely that the home office even made a public announcement that those appearing before the courts were 'criminals', pre-empting the work of the courts to make that decision!
 
Dis86 said:
How does that explain petrol station boy?

Why should what day of the week you commit a crime determine your sentence? Surely sentences should be based upon the severity of what you did and your past offending?
Click to expand...

The petrol station article is much less detailed, he may well have had previous convictions.

The day of the week doesn't determine your punishment, but as I said, it was made very clear that people who tried to fan the flames (pardon the pun) during and in the aftermath of those riots would be dealt with more severely.

It's not the gotcha you think it is.
 
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Ayahuasca said:
The petrol station article is much less detailed, he may well have had previous convictions.

The day of the week doesn't determine your punishment, but as I said, it was made very clear that people who tried to fan the flames (pardon the pun) during and in the aftermath of those riots would be dealt with more severely.

It's not the gotcha you think it is.
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Again, why does that matter? The crime is what matters. This just shows political interference in the justice system and to be blunt, how far does that go?
 
Context, reasons, planning, prior convictions, mental state at the time, plus lots of things add to the sentencing. It is much more nuanced.

It is more than just crime.

A wife being beaten and abused for 10 years snaps and stabs the husband with a kitchen knife is different than a woman planning a hit on the husband over months.

The one who snaps will likely get away with 1st Degree murder (Precedent - R v Sarah Thorton 1996), whereas the other will likely get jail time for attempting murder even if it didn't end up finishing the job.

It's been a long time since I did my law degree but historically the court is MUCH harsher on crimes committed by a mob of people than a single individual, even before those riots took place. It has always been that way.
 
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Dis86 said:
Again, why does that matter? The crime is what matters. This just shows political interference in the justice system and to be blunt, how far does that go?
Click to expand...

It matters because you're trying to compare very different situations and you've given two examples of people with multiple prior convictions, one of them with 105 convictions for 220 offences. It's been a long time since the justice system worked in such a way that you got the same sentence just because of the type of crime you committed, without taking anything else into consideration.

Emergency workers face similar threats every day from people of all backgrounds, and the consequences range from no further action to jail.
 
Begbie said:
Why wasn't Ricky Jones jailed, or at least not yet?

But everyone else who posted mean things on social media was.
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Because he pleaded "not-guilty" and therefore will stand trial for any guilt to be proven.

Everyone else plead guilty; either didn't have the money to survive waiting for a trial or were advised to plead guilty to get it over and done with and have a discount added onto their sentence for early plea.
 
Ayahuasca said:
It matters because you're trying to compare very different situations and you've given two examples of people with multiple prior convictions, one of them with 105 convictions for 220 offences. It's been a long time since the justice system worked in such a way that you got the same sentence just because of the type of crime you committed, without taking anything else into consideration.

Emergency workers face similar threats every day from people of all backgrounds, and the consequences range from no further action to jail.
Click to expand...

But it wasn't a threat. He actively tried to start the fire. He actively resisted arrest.

Agree that you have to take other things in to consideration but surely one of those critical things should be whether you actually did something or just talked about it?
 
Fubsy said:
Because he pleaded "not-guilty" and therefore will stand trial for any guilt to be proven.

Everyone else plead guilty; either didn't have the money to survive waiting for a trial or were advised to plead guilty to get it over and done with and have a discount added onto their sentence for early plea.
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You're wrong. Not everyone else plead guilty.

2 seconds on Google throws up the following;

www.bbc.com

Lincoln man pleads not guilty to Liverpool disorder

Lloyd Killner of Burton Road appeared at Liverpool Magistrates' Court on Monday.
www.bbc.com

www.barrons.com

Guilty Or Innocent? Alleged Rioters Face UK Judges

Some appear defiant, others hold back tears. Dozens of far-right rioters are being fast-tracked through UK courts as authorities try to bring a week of violent disturbances to an end.
www.barrons.com www.barrons.com

Not guilty, kept on remand. Unlike a certain labour rep who was released.
 
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