DVLA enforcement notice.

nutsnut · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:12

Hi people.

Looking for some advice here. Our car broke down and was not worth repairing so it was sold to the local scrap yard in November 2010 and the appropriate log book/papers we sent to the DVLA to show the change of ownership.

We received a letter from the DVLA in October 2011 stating that we have not taxed the vehicle and and automatic fine has been issued, after speaking to the DVLA they said they have never received the change in ownership forms and the vehicle had not been declared as SORN. A new change of ownership form was then sent to them but the DVLA said we will still need to pay the enforcement notice which we argued we were not the owners of the vehicle.

We have since received a letter from a debt collection firm chasing the payment of £80.00.

What is the best thing to do and try and keep the usual OCUK comments to yourself

Woden · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:15

Was on watchdog not long ago. Get ahold of them.

And next time anything you send to the DVLA should go with a signiture required on delivery.

Castiel · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:15

Have you got the documentation when you sold the vehicle and did you sent the log book etc by recorded delivery or have proof of delivery?....If you cannot prove that you sent the details then you may well find the cheapest option is paying the £80 before it gets to a court or bailiff and the cost start to spiral and putting it down to experience.

The Halk · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:16

Oof. Not your fault... good luck with it but I really don't know the answer.

Did you send the log books or was this something the scrapyard were supposed to be doing and didn't?

nutsnut · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:18

Log books were sent via ourselves, but only via 1st class, the same as all the other cars we have sold over the years without any issues.

nutsnut · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:20

I have searched High and low for the receipt we received from the scrap yard but t no avail, they paid via cash as well so nothing on the bank statements to show the payment as being received.

Have contacted the scrap yard but its not worth there time and they weren't too helpful given it was nearly two years ago.

May just have to pay the fine

Uther · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:44

When I scrapped my last bike I sent the forms off to dvla and got an acknowledgement letter from them.

vicisthebest · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:50

Uther said:
When I scrapped my last bike I sent the forms off to dvla and got an acknowledgement letter from them.

This. I sold my car last month, sent the log book by recorded delivery and got a confirmation letter from them shortly afterwards. As far as I know they always confirm it in writing (or do now, anyway).

I would pay the fine tbh.

nutsnut · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:50

Thanks for the advice.

AHarvey · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:58

get in touch with the scrapyard, they should have a record of the car being purchased and could write you another receipt or a letter saying when they purchased it.

SB118 · 13 Jun 2012 at 18:59

nutsnut said:
Log books were sent via ourselves, but only via 1st class, the same as all the other cars we have sold over the years without any issues.

You sent it, job done.

Have a look over on pipipooppooo (not a clue how it's spelt) and you'll see that this is a favourite of the dvla.

If they send you something in the post, it is deemed to have arrived two days later, the same rule applies to you. You posted it, it arrived two days later. When you posted the document, you had fulfilled your duty, the fact that they can't find it, etc, is their problem not yours.

Do some reading on the other site, this is a regular problem with the dvla.

-BA- · 13 Jun 2012 at 19:36

SB118 said:
You sent it, job done.

Have a look over on pipipooppooo (not a clue how it's spelt) and you'll see that this is a favourite of the dvla.

If they send you something in the post, it is deemed to have arrived two days later, the same rule applies to you. You posted it, it arrived two days later. When you posted the document, you had fulfilled your duty, the fact that they can't find it, etc, is their problem not yours.

Do some reading on the other site, this is a regular problem with the dvla.

If you have proof of postage sure. If you don't, the burden of proof is likely to lie with the sender. Personally I never send documents in any other manner than Special Delivery. It maybe be overkill but I don't want my documents "out there" longer than necessary and certainly don't want to be subjected to fines.

[TW]Fox · 13 Jun 2012 at 19:54

You get a confirmation from the DVLA a few weeks after you send the notification in. Send them a copy of this and the problem will go away.

nutsnut · 13 Jun 2012 at 20:23

No notification was received. The car is registered in my partners name, i have only had my license for the last year.

[TW]Fox · 13 Jun 2012 at 20:35

You should have received a Certificate of Destruction from the scrap yard which is your proof that the vehicle was destroyed by them. If you didn't, then its your responsibility to tell the DVLA that the vehicle is no longer with you. If you didn't get an acknowledgement, they never received it and its your responsibilty to ensure they do.

Sadly this is clearly explained on the DVLA website:

If you’re not given a CoD or your vehicle is not being destroyed, then you should complete the V5C/3 ‘Notification of sale or transfer’ section of your vehicle registration certificate (V5C), and send it to DVLA, Swansea, SA99 1BD.

You should get a letter confirming that you’re no longer responsible for the vehicle. If you don’t get this letter within four weeks, phone 0300 790 6802 for further advice

As annoying as it may be, you didn't follow the procedure and therefore there is little you can do bar pay up - especially as it's now been sold to a debt collection agency.

You should have concluded this back when you first received notification from the DVLA that perhaps all wasn't as you thought, I'd imagine that now they've got bored and sold your debt on the chances of appealing to goodwill are pretty much zero.

Pay it and chalk it down to experience.

Phate · 13 Jun 2012 at 20:45

Had something very very similar to this last week.

Drove down to the local DVLA office after being unable to get through to them on the phone due to cutbacks and they told me not to worry about it and to consider it the end of the matter.

Trifid · 13 Jun 2012 at 20:51

Have a search on pistonheads. I remember a well researched thread where the poster took it to court and won very easily.

-Ad- · 13 Jun 2012 at 21:07

-BA- said:
If you have proof of postage sure. If you don't, the burden of proof is likely to lie with the sender.

Wrong.

Trifid said:
Have a search on pistonheads. I remember a well researched thread where the poster took it to court and won very easily.

This!

Liquid Knight didn't even get to Court:

http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=919143&mid=0&i=0&nmt=DVLA+vs+Liquid+Knight&mid=0

Christ, with things like this and parking invoices, soo many UKers are such pushovers who just bend over and pay because someome sent a scary letter telling them to do so :/

Sigh....

Nathan · 13 Jun 2012 at 21:09

[TW]Fox;22134256 said:
You should have received a Certificate of Destruction from the scrap yard which is your proof that the vehicle was destroyed by them. If you didn't, then its your responsibility to tell the DVLA that the vehicle is no longer with you. If you didn't get an acknowledgement, they never received it and its your responsibilty to ensure they do.

Sadly this is clearly explained on the DVLA website:

As annoying as it may be, you didn't follow the procedure and therefore there is little you can do bar pay up - especially as it's now been sold to a debt collection agency.

You should have concluded this back when you first received notification from the DVLA that perhaps all wasn't as you thought, I'd imagine that now they've got bored and sold your debt on the chances of appealing to goodwill are pretty much zero.

Pay it and chalk it down to experience.

The point here is its dvla procedure not legislation. You obliged with the Road traffic act by placing the v5 in an addressed/stamped envelope and posting it. I would fight it. I did in slightly different circumstances and won.

[TW]Fox · 13 Jun 2012 at 21:21

Nathan said:
The point here is its dvla procedure not legislation. You obliged with the Road traffic act by placing the v5 in an addressed/stamped envelope and posting it. I would fight it. I did in slightly different circumstances and won.

The time to do this is surely when the DVLA tell you that you are going to get a fine. Not 9 months later when they've given up chasing and flogged the debt?

How can he prove he even sent it? Mind you if he doesn't need to prove it then it might be worth a go!