Ebay refund item not received (Royal Mail at their finest)

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:07

I'm a long time ebayer but this is the first time I've had to deal with a missing delivery.
I sent the item via RM SD which is now 7 days overdue (calendar days, I don't want to get into the ambiguity of strike days and/or weekends just yet).
The tracking hasn't updated since Sat 26th Nov and quite rightly the buyer has submitted a Not Received claim. I have been messaging him throughout and we're on the same page.

My question is, if/when I refund the buyer, what happens if the item then arrives? Would RM dismiss my claim for lost post or is the fact that it's this late irrelevant i.e. I will be able to claim regardless?
I have asked eBay for their input and they have said should the item subsequently arrive I can manually invoice the buyer - I am totally unaware of such a procedure.
The one thing I could do is ask the buyer if he could reject the delivery (should it ever arrive) but this comes down to good will at the end of the day.

Meaker · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:12

Technically the item then belongs to Royal mail I think. If it arrives the user should let RM know but if they have lost it then that's then between the receiver and RM.

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:14

Meaker said:
Technically the item then belongs to Royal mail I think. If it arrives the user should let RM know but if they have lost it then that's then between the receiver and RM.

Thanks. I guess the issue is the period between me refunding the buyer and RM confirming they have indeed lost it. I understand that such claims can take up to 30 days and with all the shenanigans currently going on goodness only knows how long it would take them to rule in this scenario.
Or is it the case (as you elude to) that the item is RM property from the time I submit the claim, rather than RM admitting it's lost?

Jono8 · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:19

Hm, if it was supposed to be special delivery, this is tricky.

It is 5 working days after the due date for SD

https://www.royalmail.com/retail-compensation-policy-loss

an item shall be deemed as lost if Royal Mail has not delivered it at the place to which it is addressed by the end of the tenth working day (or the fifth working day for Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm® (not posted on account) after its due date of delivery, unless there is evidence to the contrary to demonstrate that the item has not been lost.

However, i do not know if the strike action might change that in terms of what is considered working day since.

At the moment, i wouldn't be refunding them if it has only been 7 days via normal post. They will likely still receive it. I am having things sent to me 1st/2nd class taking up to two weeks at the moment. I am not complaining to the sellers as I know RM is in total disarray.

For SD, I would maybe give it another few working days so RM cannot weasel their way out of it.

Haggisman · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:21

From RM website:

"an item shall be deemed as lost if Royal Mail has not delivered it at the place to which it is addressed by the end of the tenth working day (or the fifth working day for Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm® (not posted on account) after its due date of delivery, unless there is evidence to the contrary to demonstrate that the item has not been lost."

I've bolded the last part, as I think that's the most relevant. If they subsequently deliver it, then that is obviously evidence that the item has not been lost. Therefore I think you would be unlikely to be able to claim successfully.

As far as manually invoicing the buyer goes, not sure what protection you'd have from Ebay in that scenario (almost certainly none).

Basically, in your position I wouldn't refund until RM compensate you.

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 14:51

Haggisman said:
Basically, in your position I wouldn't refund until RM compensate you.

In ideal world that's exactly what I'd do. However, I imagine the refund is pretty much inevitable at this stage as the case is now opened and we know how ebay usually deal with such matters.
I have already said to the guy that I will let his request sit another couple of days - at least that way I'll have definitely waited the requisite 5 days (even accounting for the 2 strike days) and I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers that it magically appears by then.

Vanquish-Storm · 5 Dec 2022 at 15:17

Haggisman said:
From RM website:

"an item shall be deemed as lost if Royal Mail has not delivered it at the place to which it is addressed by the end of the tenth working day (or the fifth working day for Royal Mail Special Delivery Guaranteed by 1pm® (not posted on account) after its due date of delivery, unless there is evidence to the contrary to demonstrate that the item has not been lost."

I've bolded the last part, as I think that's the most relevant. If they subsequently deliver it, then that is obviously evidence that the item has not been lost. Therefore I think you would be unlikely to be able to claim successfully.

As far as manually invoicing the buyer goes, not sure what protection you'd have from Ebay in that scenario (almost certainly none).

Basically, in your position I wouldn't refund until RM compensate you.

eBay wont let you wait that long - they would just take the money and refund the buyer

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 15:26

Vanquish-Storm said:
eBay wont let you wait that long - they would just take the money and refund the buyer

Herein lies the issue.
I'm currently on hold with RM (65 minutes and counting) to see if I can garner anything of use from their end. On the work phone so hopefully they answer before 5pm

Haggisman · 5 Dec 2022 at 15:59

GMac11 said:
In ideal world that's exactly what I'd do. However, I imagine the refund is pretty much inevitable at this stage as the case is now opened and we know how ebay usually deal with such matters.
I have already said to the guy that I will let his request sit another couple of days - at least that way I'll have definitely waited the requisite 5 days (even accounting for the 2 strike days) and I suppose all I can do is cross my fingers that it magically appears by then.

Vanquish-Storm said:
eBay wont let you wait that long - they would just take the money and refund the buyer

How long do you have before the refund is forced? As soon as that goes through then you're basically reliant on either the item actually being lost (and RM refunding you), or the honesty of the buyer in either refusing delivery or paying you again.

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 16:03

Haggisman said:
How long do you have before the refund is forced? As soon as that goes through then you're basically reliant on either the item actually being lost (and RM refunding you), or the honesty of the buyer in either refusing delivery or paying you again.

Yep, pretty much this.
I did get through to RM who confirmed (as far they are concerned) the parcel is lost and to proceed with my claim.
I still didn't get a firm answer to my what happens if it arrives query - they seemed fairly confident it was lost :rolleyes:

Semple · 5 Dec 2022 at 16:11

This is where ebay is pretty useless. They should put a freeze on the funds until it's passed whatever time royal mail deem it as a total loss so that you can claim compensation from them, and the buyer can get a refund.

darael · 5 Dec 2022 at 16:16

If you haven't already, get on the blower to Royal Fail and find out what their deadline is for delivery given the recent strikes. From past experience, it can take about a month to get your money back off Royal Mail. So spinning out your case the maximum of what I believe is 10 days will only aggravate the buyer.

Refund the buyer and suck it up while you wait to hear from Royal Fail.

Haze · 5 Dec 2022 at 16:19

He will get a refund and then the item for free... The joy of ebay and royal mail strikes

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 16:28

darael said:
If you haven't already, get on the blower to Royal Fail and find out what their deadline is for delivery given the recent strikes. From past experience, it can take about a month to get your money back off Royal Mail. So spinning out your case the maximum of what I believe is 10 days will only aggravate the buyer.

Refund the buyer and suck it up while you wait to hear from Royal Fail.

I just posted the outcome of my call with RM above - our posts may have crossed paths along the way.
TL;DR the call handler said item now considered lost and proceed with claim , so that’s what I’ve done.

darael · 5 Dec 2022 at 17:16

GMac11 said:
I just posted the outcome of my call with RM above - our posts may have crossed paths along the way.
TL;DR the call handler said item now considered lost and proceed with claim , so that’s what I’ve done.

You're right, our posts must have crossed paths as I didn't see that post.

I remember filling in the PDF form which wasn't too bad. It was the wait I hated.

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 17:22

darael said:
You're right, our posts must have crossed paths as I didn't see that post.

I remember filling in the PDF form which wasn't too bad. It was the wait I hated.

I really don’t mind the wait - I always ring-fence funds from sales until I know the buyer has received and is happy with said item.
So long as I don’t get screwed over down the line due to a combination of RM’s incompetence and eBay’s weak seller protection.

The_Arbiter · 5 Dec 2022 at 18:46

I'd wager an agency employee took a shine to it. Does the supposed delivery day align with a strike day? I think drivers, warehouse staff and posties were striking on different separate days at one point.

GMac11 · 5 Dec 2022 at 18:50

The_Arbiter said:
I'd wager an agency employee took a shine to it. Does the supposed delivery day align with a strike day? I think drivers, warehouse staff and posties were striking on different separate days at one point.

Hard to say. Was posted on Saturday 26th (first strike ended on the Friday). So, knock-on delays aside, it should have been delivered on the Monday and at a push Tuesday. Then the second strike hit on the Wednesday which is likely where something has gone awry.