Electricians: Installing Plug Socket In Loft

TechFunctions

TechFunctions

TechFunctions

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Hi, Hoping there is an electrician in here :) Wondering what would be the best way to install a plug sock in the loft just need it to plug a network switch which will power several ipcams (POE). 13 Amp socket max, Would it be all right to take power from the lighting circuit.

Cheers:D
 
If you look, you'll probably see the upstairs sockets ring main going down the walls, I guess it'd be better to tap into that?

Saying that, I know nothing, so do not take my advice.
 
Taking power from the lighting ring is a definate no no. If you were to get a sparky out and he turned off the RCD for your lighting circuit you could potentially kill him/her as he would be thinking its off. Most sparkys will check of course but some dont. So yeah dont use the lighting circuit. Adding a socket upsairs isnt that hard just I would imagine you could one up there for a about £60.
 
Would be best to use a socket circuit for this, but AFAIK there's no reason you cant use a lighting circuit apart from it would be potentially annoying as they tend to blow / trip when bulbs blow, meaning you could keep losing power to the new socket.

Also lighting circuit would be 5/6A most likely so would limit the power too much possibly, say you wanted to do DIY in loft and plug in some power tools or something etc.

If you can find one of the socket circuits and spur off of that would probably be best, you should be able to see quite easily by the cable size if there is a socket circuit running through the loft.

Your lights will be 1mm or maybe 1.5mm cable, sockets would be 2.5mm cable which you can visually see the difference, so once found you can use this to power the new socket etc.
 
HardwareGeek said:
Would be best to use a socket circuit for this, but AFAIK there's no reason you cant use a lighting circuit apart from it would be potentially annoying as they tend to blow / trip when bulbs blow, meaning you could keep losing power to the new socket.

Also lighting circuit would be 5/6A most likely so would limit the power too much possibly, say you wanted to do DIY in loft and plug in some power tools or something etc.

If you can find one of the socket circuits and spur off of that would probably be best, you should be able to see quite easily by the cable size if there is a socket circuit running through the loft.

Your lights will be 1mm or maybe 1.5mm cable, sockets would be 2.5mm cable which you can visually see the difference, so once found you can use this to power the new socket etc.
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Do not under any circumstances wire a 13 amp socket into a lighting circuit. If you only want one socket, a fused spur from your existing upstairs socket ring is what you want.
 
I cant think of a reg atm that says you cannot do this tbh... feel free to correct me tho as i've never thought about this before, i would just use a socket or other circuit before lights.

EDIT: fuse info removed :(
 
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Wire a fused spur connection unit in to the lighting circuit. Fit a 3Amp fuse in to it, and from this wire a 13Amp socket

I'm pretty sure there will be a reg against this in 16th Edition, and I doubt you will get a sparky to do this for the above reason!

If and when you move, back out your wiring addition, and make sure everyone else with access to the loft knows what you've done, maybe mark up the socket with 3Amp MAX or similar.

Plenty of help from qualified electricians on diynot.com
 
I've heard of people putting BS546(?) 5a sockets onto lighting rings.

13A plug on a 6A circuit, forgetting it was only for that tiny bit of kit and plugging in something a little more juicy........eeek.


coopersim said:
Plenty of help from qualified electricians on diynot.com
Click to expand...

I'm sure Ban All Sheds would be first to comment on this if it were posted in Diynot.com
 
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Wouldn't necessarily need a 3A fuse spur by the regs but it may be sensible to use one, it would blow at 4.5A so by then lights + 4.5A may already take the fuse/mcb in the fuse box out.

even if you wired it in 1mm cable it will be ok for 6A, fusing is to protect the cable.
 
If you worried about plugging to much into a 13A socket, you can just wire the item direct into a fuse spur or non fused spur so then nothing else can be connected.

But best to use a socket circuit if poss
 
HardwareGeek said:
I cant think of a reg atm that says you cannot do this tbh... feel free to correct me tho as i've never thought about this before, i would just use a socket or other circuit before lights.

EDIT: fuse info removed :(
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Are you a 17th edition spark or just pretending?

You really can not be serious. You are saying that there are no regulations against wiring a 13A socket to a 5A/6A lighting circuit. So someone comes along and plugs a 3KW heater into the 13A socket in the loft and the circuit breaker is faulty and what could happen to those 1mm lighting cables. You may think 'well it's only me plugging things in so i know not to plug a kettle or a heater in' but these things have a habit of going wrong and it's why we have building/electrical regulations.

If you are wiring a 13A socket in the Loft you must come off (Spur off) the upstairs ring main or wire a new circuit from the consumer unit (fuseboard) using 2.5mm twin and earth. If you spur off an existing socket upstairs you will not need to have a part P certificate issued after completion as it is not a new circuit but an extension to an existing circuit but if you wire it from the consumer unit (fuseboard) then you will have to get a Part P spark in to examine your work and test the installation and issue you with a certificate. A lot of people tend to just 'bodge' electrics but, and i have seen this, insurance companies tend to not pay out if you try and claim after it all goes wrong.
 
Might also be worth considering utilising the immersion heater circuit (if it's no longer in use) (changing MCB to more appropriate amperage) which is usually upstairs in older houses (and surface running a cable through the airing cupboard usually doesn't matter so much)

Also, a lot of houses these days have the boiler in the loft - might be a possibility?

BAS on diynot.com is a bit of a troll, but just avoid talking about downlighters at all costs and you'll be fine!
 
Tbh the regs do not cover failure of mcb's AFAIK, in fact mcb's aren't even tested in any way when installed apart from functional tests, they are just assumed to work believe it or not.

In fact there was a recall recently when electrium manufactured 6/10/16A Breakers that didn't trip until over 40A if i remember correctly. Thousands of mcbs were installed all across the country, and may even be in your house right now if you had work done before it was discovered.

Went to a job recently where this happened and it literally melted half the board and i had to replace it.

Still cant think of a reg that says you cannot do this, even tho its not a good idea.

Extreme example:

Afaik you could wire 100A load onto a 6A circuit, wired with 1mm cable, it just wouldn't work.

What you cant do is wire a 6A cable onto a 100A fuse, cos then the cable would burn well before the fuse tripped.

PS. Mcb's not working isn't really a problem specific to this case, for example you could develop and fault on your wiring or an accessory like a socket or light and run the risk or fire etc if the mcb was faulty.
 
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You are wrong HardwareGeek. You can not and must not install an outlet that can possibly draw 13A (roughly 3KW) in a circuit that is only rated at a maximum of 6A (roughly 1.4KW). I do not know of any spark that would even think for a second about doing that as it is extremely bad practice.

Edit: I am also 17th and 2391
 
The point is, it doesn't matter if the socket if rated at 13A or not, or 100A, the circuit say its wired in 1mm cable, will take between say 10-17A, and its fused at 6A so its can never cause an problem, except trip the fuse/mcb.

As above if the mcb doesn't operate correctly that's a separate issue
 
HardwareGeek said:
The point is, it doesn't matter if the socket if rated at 13A or not, or 100A, the circuit say its wired in 1mm cable, will take between say 10-17A, and its fused at 6A so its can never cause an problem, except trip the fuse/mcb.

As above if the mcb doesn't operate correctly that's a separate issue
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But, this is a house we are talking about so the 1mm twin and earth that feeds the lighting circuit is more than likely enclosed in the wall and so, using the regs, the current carrying capacity is 10/11 Amps.

Can i ask how many sockets you have wired off a lighting circuit in your time as a spark?
 
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