Elite dangerous vs EvE?

Allnamestaken said:
No not at all, the majority of the player base don't want much of the original game content to change. They are risk averse to pvp do not like surpise content and are so against change it is scary.

Honestly, the biggest mistake FDEV made was allowing a group mode and solo mode that all affected the online open game play by way of Community goals and power play.

The forum community in ED are so against PVP that any instance of "non consensual" and spontaneous pvp is looked upon as griefing...

They want to basically play the game without any threat of being destroyed and will resort to mountains of tears and sperging on the forums when FDEV supports this kind of pvp.

The game is supposed to be an open ended sandbox blaze your own trail but the community is absolute...lty awful.

There are large groups of 10k plus players moving away from online open play to private player groups to completely avoid potential hostile player interaction despite having the tools to avoid it which takes away from the game because they dont want to be someone elses content.

FDEV have provided a funnel for these people to AVOID learning and getting good at the game from player interaction and experiance be it hostile or not by allowing private group play.

The biggest mistake they ever made was having a private group mode.

Utter ********, if you want pvp in this game then don't expect much.

Just a bunch of whineing carebears who have NO IDEA how lucky they have it.

Eve is a truely hardcore sandbox but its not first person which is the only downside as a lot of people prefer this. I played Eve online for 10 years and I can only praise the game, Elite while beautiful and fun on the basic level when you try to move into the finer aspects of the game you see how glaringly bad/boring it is.


No it is not an MMO... the player base do not want player transfers/alliances/group conflict or interaction/player trading... all the things that make an MMO, hell they do not even want players to have wings to fly in now that it was implemented.

A pathetic community honestly just read their forums its like reading a space version of mumsnet.
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What a load of rubbish, I'm glad they're not listening to the likes of you, that's not what Elite is or has ever been about, go back to EvE with your attitude and stay there thanks.
 
Dano said:
What a load of rubbish, I'm glad they're not listening to the likes of you, that's not what Elite is or has ever been about, go back to EvE with your attitude and stay there thanks.
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ROFL the pvp crowd are not asking the fdevs to do anything they are perfectly happy with the open world enviroment.

What needs to be changed is the security response to players attacking other players in high security systems. It needs to work top down so tough response high and lower response the lower it gets, this will balance things out and make people feel safer knowing faction police will actually provide a form of cover.. MUCH like eve so that players don't feel so vulnerable.

Instead of proposing actual decent changes all you hear from the pve crowd is whine whine whine whine whine on the forum 1vs1 only honorable samurai warrior pvp, wings are for noobs omg i got killed in my mining t9 in a power play system full of players remove pvp from the game.

Literally the most self entitled community I have ever seen.

Fdev can make this game amazing if they improved the security system made solo play truely offline and did not allow private groups to affect open, so players cannot just go into private or solo and affect the open online universe without no recourse or risks, that is pathetic.

If all you wan't is stagnent pve universe then fine watch this game die, I barely even pvp in Elite... you never see anyone even in powerplay systems of CG's because of instancing and even then most of the time people are friendly so all this griefing people moan about is blow completely out of the proportion by the carebears on the forum.

They hear of one instance of a group infiltrating mobius and they people who have never even been attacked by players cry wolf about how pvp sucks and how it should be removed from open or people banned for killing people I mean really?

Its rubbish really? need I point to mumsnet oh mybad the frontier forums? I mean seriously, don't get me wrong I love this game but the community can suck my toe.
 
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Not bitter at all, I just see a game I could really appreciate being completely ruined by a bad community, I'm sorry that I am just speaking the truth after much time monitoring the forums and playing the game.
 
If someone could take the principal ship piloting mechanics from ED and put it in a real sandbox universe like Eve it would be incredible. I've played both for vaying lengths of time.

Eve is an amazing universe, no doubt about it....but the gameplay is so far abstracted from actually piloting a spaceship...it's just a numbers game after a while. ED on the other hand has top notch first person gameplay mechanics and aesthetic, in a completely vacuous world entirely devoid of engaging content.

I really *really* hope SC can hit the sweet spot between the two. Great ship mechanics coupled with a real, living breathing player-driven world.
 
Allnamestaken said:
snip
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I completely understand your frustration with the game, and although I agree with a lot of your points, there are better ways to go about these things. Using certain... specific words triggers an understandable reaction from people, and in fact undermines your own argument. I'd like to be able to dial the discussion down a notch without having to resort to removing posts, so that you don't continue to offend people, and so that your points - many of which I agree with - can be discussed without already being sullied :p
 
I agree with the disappointment in E:D, it promised so much but was just sooo boring. I've not played it in a good while now though, but I can't see it improving at all.

Such a waste of a beautiful game.
 
Allnamestaken said:
Not bitter at all, I just see a game I could really appreciate being completely ruined by a bad community, I'm sorry that I am just speaking the truth after much time monitoring the forums and playing the game.
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lol so long story short, you can't play Counter Strike with spaceships so you're whining.
 
Begbie said:
I agree with the disappointment in ED, it promised so much but was just sooo boring. I've not played it in a good while now though, but I can't see it improving at all.

Such a waste of a beautiful game.
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I agree.

Start Citizen seems more of a game to me.

Also, the Expansion pack for Elite was the final slap in the face in my opinion.
 
Same old sides arguing as last time I looked on the FD forums then. One camp that wants a co-op PvE game, and one side that wants PvP, both slinging mud at each other.
 
I don't understand how they keep messing them up.

E:D has so much potential, but it's merely a spreadsheet game with bonus shooting bits which after a little while gets boring as hell. Realizing you're only doing this for a bigger ship. :/
 
wordy said:
lol so long story short, you can't play Counter Strike with spaceships so you're whining.
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I don't see it that way. It's a difficult argument to make, because everyone's opinion about what E:D should be is different.]

When it comes to PVP, there are ways to meaningfully interact with other players if you really, really try hard, but it is convuluted at best and broken at worst.

Elite and Frontier were great, however what many people had hoped for - and what Frontier had promised - was a persistent game world where meaningful interaction and change could take place with and against fellow players. By making certain specific decisions during the design - specifically the use of P2P communication between players, along with heavy use of small instances - they really seem to have painted themselves in to a corner with reference to truly rewarding player-player interaction on a galactic scale.

I can't help but feel that if there was not such pressure to keep the "single player" aspect of the game, they would have maybe gone down the road of a more traditional MMO instancing system, where everyone in each individual game "world" can see each other permanently, and everything that is changed stays that way within that world. Making the decision to use P2P communication between players and heavy instancing fundamentally undermines something E:D otherwise is incredibly good at; immersing the player in the world.

When I am just traversing and observing the galaxy in Elite, it really is near perfect to me. I can't put my finger on anything that Frontier could have done to make the experience better without compromising immersion. When played in this way however, it really is nothing more than an elaborate tech demo. It's when you get down to the gameplay, or make any attempt to experience meaningful interaction with the game world beyond simple observation, that the immersion is horribly broken. When interacting with things, such as NPCs, stations, signal sources, warzones, or even other players, there's an overarching obviousness to the way the game "presents" the interaction that makes the player - or at least me, in any case - very aware that this is just a computer system pushing content out to my own little instance that it has created, just for me. In a split second, an Elite Dangerous player transitions from observing and moving through what appears to be a full scale galaxy, in a ship that moves and sounds like something out of your most vivid sci-fi insipired dreams, to realising that in fact it is all only existing in a tiny bubble of imaginary space on a computer, invisible and impenetrable to everyone else in existence that hasn't also been placed inside the bubble. Could there be a starker contrast than this?

It is reminiscent of the moment in The Matrix, where Neo wakes up and realises the utterly convicing world he has been surrounded by has been a computer simulation, except worse... in The Matrix at least he could experience meaningful interaction with the world and with others. I wish the same could be said for E:D.
 
Imagine if CDProjeckt suddenly announced they were going to help FD with fleshing out Elite and bringing more story and interaction elements.

/dream :(
 
I am in agreement with both sides of this argument.

Don't think either side can disagree the game needs a lot more content and that's all it is for me. I can live with pvp or no pvp as I enjoy both.

Would prefer with pvp on so everyone has the choice and the risks add to the game.

As for the Solo/private situation - it is pretty stupid that you can move to solo to avoid stuff etc. FD are taking their sweet time but I do think they will eventually come up with the goods. Just in the mean time we have a pretty boring game that looks and handles amazing.
 
Zefan said:
I don't see it that way. It's a difficult argument to make, because everyone's opinion about what E:D should be is different.]

When it comes to PVP, there are ways to meaningfully interact with other players if you really, really try hard, but it is convuluted at best and broken at worst.

Elite and Frontier were great, however what many people had hoped for - and what Frontier had promised - was a persistent game world where meaningful interaction and change could take place with and against fellow players. By making certain specific decisions during the design - specifically the use of P2P communication between players, along with heavy use of small instances - they really seem to have painted themselves in to a corner with reference to truly rewarding player-player interaction on a galactic scale.

I can't help but feel that if there was not such pressure to keep the "single player" aspect of the game, they would have maybe gone down the road of a more traditional MMO instancing system, where everyone in each individual game "world" can see each other permanently, and everything that is changed stays that way within that world. Making the decision to use P2P communication between players and heavy instancing fundamentally undermines something E:D otherwise is incredibly good at; immersing the player in the world.

When I am just traversing and observing the galaxy in Elite, it really is near perfect to me. I can't put my finger on anything that Frontier could have done to make the experience better without compromising immersion. When played in this way however, it really is nothing more than an elaborate tech demo. It's when you get down to the gameplay, or make any attempt to experience meaningful interaction with the game world beyond simple observation, that the immersion is horribly broken. When interacting with things, such as NPCs, stations, signal sources, warzones, or even other players, there's an overarching obviousness to the way the game "presents" the interaction that makes the player - or at least me, in any case - very aware that this is just a computer system pushing content out to my own little instance that it has created, just for me. In a split second, an Elite Dangerous player transitions from observing and moving through what appears to be a full scale galaxy, in a ship that moves and sounds like something out of your most vivid sci-fi insipired dreams, to realising that in fact it is all only existing in a tiny bubble of imaginary space on a computer, invisible and impenetrable to everyone else in existence that hasn't also been placed inside the bubble. Could there be a starker contrast than this?

It is reminiscent of the moment in The Matrix, where Neo wakes up and realises the utterly convicing world he has been surrounded by has been a computer simulation, except worse... in The Matrix at least he could experience meaningful interaction with the world and with others. I wish the same could be said for E:D.
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Can't argue with that, that's a well thought out position. However that wasn't what the guy I quoted said, he is basically whining about "carebears" not wanting to get ganked by "Griefers" and as Mid_gen said....

mid_gen said:
Same old sides arguing as lasst time I looked on the FD forums then. One camp that wants a co-op PvE game, and one side that wants PvP, both slinging mud at each other.
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Which is very true & happened ad-auseum on the EVE forums.
 
wordy said:
Can't argue with that, that's a well thought out position. However that wasn't what the guy I quoted said, he is basically whining about "carebears" not wanting to get ganked by "Griefers" and as Mid_gen said....
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I'm arguing that the issues people have with the game are only present as a result of the lack of easy, non-immersion breaking, meaningful interaction that the game provides with the world, and with other players. If meaningful interaction was more easy and was more integrated in to the immersive experience that is the game, players would probably not resort to the "griefing", or at least there would be other things to do to satisfy them.

It needs to be a balance, but in my view they have - in their attempt to strike this balance - missed the mark and ended up doing neither, satisfying almost no one and upsetting almost everyone :p
 
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