Employee's "mental health day" goes viral

[dowie]

I saw this a few days ago and meant to make a thread about it then, have got mixed views about it:

The email was titled "Where's Madalyn," and in the body Parker wrote: "I'm taking today and tomorrow to focus on my mental health. Hopefully I'll be back next week refreshed and back to 100%."

Her CEO Ben Congleton got back to her in the best way possible.

"I just wanted to personally thank you for sending emails like this," he wrote. "Every time you do, I use it as a reminder of the importance of using sick days for mental health — I can't believe this is not standard practice at all organisations. You are an example to us all, and help cut through the stigma so we can bring our whole selves to work."

Parker has written about her mental health and working before. She says she is comfortable with talking about it now, but the idea used to terrify her.

In a Medium blog post, Congleton explained further how surprised he was at the reaction, and how in 2017 this response really should be the norm.

On one hand mental heath issues are something that pretty much all of us will experience at some point(s) in our lives just like being sick is something pretty much all of us will experience - on the other hand, unlike a sickness/infection that you can spread around an office even though you probably could work (and thus perhaps should stay at home instead of trying to be a hero) mental health isn't something infectious that others might catch and perhaps time off ought to be reserved for the more serious cases.

I mean someone with serious anxiety, depression, stress could easily be signed off by a GP for say 2 weeks at a time and have those periods of time off occur consecutively. In this case however she's decided in advance to just take two days off and essentially have a long weekend which would seem to indicate it isn't as serious as someone who needs a serious block of time off.

I do wonder if for these less serious instances that people ought to be taking holidays appropriately and therefore giving themselves adequate breaks - something they're already empowered to do - at least in workplaces/with managers who aren't funny about when holidays are taken.

Also some workplaces/careers are going to be inherently stressful, if low level mental health is going to be casually dealt with by ad hoc self certified sick days then could this cause issues for certain careers - I mean I doubt it would be acceptable to have two days off for 'stress' immediately before a project delivery deadline or perhaps for an Accountant to have regular mental health days just before month/year end.

 

[Mr Badger]

I saw this a few days ago and meant to make a thread about it then, have got mixed views about it:




On one hand mental heath issues are something that pretty much all of us will experience at some point(s) in our lives just like being sick is something pretty much all of us will experience - on the other hand, unlike a sickness/infection that you can spread around an office even though you probably could work (and thus perhaps should stay at home instead of trying to be a hero) mental health isn't something infectious that others might catch and perhaps time off ought to be reserved for the more serious cases.

I mean someone with serious anxiety, depression, stress could easily be signed off by a GP for say 2 weeks at a time and have those periods of time off occur consecutively. In this case however she's decided in advance to just take two days off and essentially have a long weekend which would seem to indicate it isn't as serious as someone who needs a serious block of time off.

I do wonder if for these less serious instances that people ought to be taking holidays appropriately and therefore giving themselves adequate breaks - something they're already empowered to do - at least in workplaces/with managers who aren't funny about when holidays are taken.

Also some workplaces/careers are going to be inherently stressful, if low level mental health is going to be casually dealt with by ad hoc self certified sick days then could this cause issues for certain careers - I mean I doubt it would be acceptable to have two days off for 'stress' immediately before a project delivery deadline or perhaps for an Accountant to have regular mental health days just before month/year end.

Looks as though you need to do some Googling. Try permutations of the following:

Equality Act 2010, protected characteristics, mental illness, disability, reasonable adjustment, discrimination.

 

[StriderX]

For some reason i doubt blocks of work and holidays so far apart is where industry is heading, a softer relationship between work and leisure is far more beneficial.

I really don't get the purpose of forcing people to suffer an entire day of work in some ****** office, I mean if you get the work done, it shouldn't matter what you do during the day otherwise.

 

[dowie]

Looks as though you need to do some Googling. Try permutations of the following:

Equality Act 2010, protected characteristics, mental illness, disability, reasonable adjustment, discrimination.

not particularly, you could perhaps try offering an opinion rather than some search suggestions

 

[Mr Badger]

not particularly, you could perhaps try offering an opinion rather than some search suggestions

If you read the relevant sources (such as the UK government website) then you might see the flaw in your position for yourself and thus save me from another round of soul destroying exchanges.

 

[dowie]

If you read the relevant sources (such as the UK government website) then you might see the flaw in your position for yourself and thus save me from another round of soul destroying exchanges.

I've not really taken a strong position either way - if you think there is a flaw then why not highlight it, if you've got some opinion to offer yourself then why not just offer it. Just posting and essentially saying 'you're wrong, google it' adds nothing.

 

[Rroff]

unlike a sickness/infection that you can spread around an office even though you probably could work (and thus perhaps should stay at home instead of trying to be a hero) mental health isn't something infectious that others might catch and perhaps time off ought to be reserved for the more serious cases.

With most infectious diseases the contagious period starts long before any signs - by the time people start having time off it will already have penetrated as far as it is going to in most work places.

The reason people have time off is due to not feeling capable of working, though obviously if there is some kind way to avoid spreading an infection i.e. coming back from a holiday having picked something up then there is that as well.

Mental health and other silent/invisible afflictions can be just as debilitating as more obvious physical sickness.

EDIT: This is something I've come up against, more in respect to physical sickness, while working - I usually battle on through and only take say a couple of days off when other people might take a whole week and then people think it isn't as serious as it is just because I only took 2 days off :| also the way some people think you are either seriously ill (and hence need a whole block of time off) or well enough to work and can't get their heads around how someone might need 24 hours off for a migraine.

 

[dowie]

well you're right re: colds etc.. but not always the case and frankly I'd prefer people to stay home if they're infectious.

24 hours off for a migraine I can understand, it is the 2 days off/long weekend for 'mental health' that has thrown me a bit especially if it is stress/anxiety related - that is the sort of thing I think using holiday allowances appropriately so you don't end up anxious/burned out is perhaps better.

 

[Rroff]

Ah don't think I quite caught your line of reasoning before.

A lot of places where I've worked I'm not sure how easy it would be for people to manage conditions that might be exacerbated by factors at work like that using holidays with some of the restrictions in place as to when and how long people can have time off or even if accommodation could be made for that with better awareness within the company.

 

[Tefal]

Tbh this soubds like a typical "oh im so depressed" type who's just usurping genuine MH problems as an excuse.


I can't think of any point where a pre-emptive "ah yes a nice 4 day weekend will solve my crippling mh issues"


Most people in our place (which has excelent mh care i have to say) if they're taking time for mental health issues wont be back for at least a month

 

[Efour]

Sounds like a good blag for a couple of days off. They love this kind of bs in Sweden


3,2....1 suspension

 

[Barks]

The irony for me is surely taking time off work and sitting at home would make things worse regardless if it's genuine MH condition or someone feeling down with life?

I don't suffer from genuine mental health problems but when I have days when I'm down and depressed the one thing that sorts it out is really focusing on my work and upping the intensity. Exactly the same principle as going to the gym or for a run - it takes your mind off it and puts you in a better place.

 

[Dis86]

It really does just scream drama queen to me.

 

[Tefal]

The irony for me is surely taking time off work and sitting at home would make things worse regardless if it's genuine MH condition or someone feeling down with life?

I don't suffer from genuine mental health problems but when I have days when I'm down and depressed the one thing that sorts it out is really focusing on my work and upping the intensity. Exactly the same principle as going to the gym or for a run - it takes your mind off it and puts you in a better place.

depends if work is a problem for you.

a guy i know who had serious depression anxiety/panic attacks was caused by his work. fortunately the company is quite good with MH gave him time off and brought him back in a different less pressured role and hes now great

years he suffered till he finally told* the company and got it sorted.






*as an aside first time i wrote that i naturally wrote it as "finally admitted to the company" its kind of strange that naturally i think "admitted" to a mh issue but wouldn't think the same to a telling them about a physical illness.

 

[robj20]

Were allowed days off for all sorts of things, comes under Human Factors. If your head isn't on the job, then don't do the job. If i feel tired i take a break or do something else for 30 minutes.

 

[TheVoice]

The irony for me is surely taking time off work and sitting at home would make things worse regardless if it's genuine MH condition or someone feeling down with life?

Not necessarily. If you're getting stressed and anxious at work, being at work isn't going to help.

 

[Dis86]

Not necessarily. If you're getting stressed and anxious at work, being at work isn't going to help.

If you're getting stressed and anxious should you not question whether you're mentally proficient for the job?
This is something I never understood. You can, quite easily, accept that someone isn't physically capable of a job. I for example am not physically capable of being a premier league footballer or astronaut. If I somehow managed to get in to those positions and they realised how crap I was I'd get sacked.yet if someone is mentally incapable then it's ok? They just go down with stress and come back then rinse and repeat.

 

[glenimp617]

I work my backside off at work, to the point I am mentally drained. You can blame cutbacks, idiotic staff, poor senior management etc etc etc

Not sure you should have to take a days holiday to recover from stress. It's a tricky one.

Then again maybe it's my fault for doing too much. I am responsible for a lot of things so it's my arse on the line if anything goes wrong so I work bloomin' hard.

 

[Boycey0211]

Its the wording that gets me 'two days off to focus on my mental health'

That doesn't even say shes got issues in the first place, you could interpret it as 'I'm having two days off just incase I get stressed'

The term mental health is all encompassing that much is true, but people are clocking on to how to play it for their own gain which undermines the whole system.

I know of a woman who got 'stress' through her basic admin tasks, was routinely and deliberately unhelpful and obstructive, and even the slightest issue you went to her with was unsolvable. All of a sudden she comes into work for 2 hours per day 3 days a week because she's gone sick with work related stress, and continued to get paid her full salary for the next year ntil her contract was up.

 

[dowie]

Tbh this soubds like a typical "oh im so depressed" type who's just usurping genuine MH problems as an excuse.


I can't think of any point where a pre-emptive "ah yes a nice 4 day weekend will solve my crippling mh issues"


Most people in our place (which has excelent mh care i have to say) if they're taking time for mental health issues wont be back for at least a month

That was the bit that struck me as being odd - GPs seem to offer to sign you off work for 2 weeks for this sort of thing (anxiety/stress), at least that was offered to me on a couple of occasions for anxiety by different GPs.

Ah don't think I quite caught your line of reasoning before.

A lot of places where I've worked I'm not sure how easy it would be for people to manage conditions that might be exacerbated by factors at work like that using holidays with some of the restrictions in place as to when and how long people can have time off or even if accommodation could be made for that with better awareness within the company.

Yeah perhaps more understandable in places that don't deal well with holidays, in which case maybe a forced short break is more appropriate. The issue I'd have is if say someone who knows they suffer from stress/anxiety was to say work the first 6 months of the year without taking any holiday/breaks then try to pull something like this - if just a couple of days off was what was needed to get them in the right place and they hadn't already been spacing out holidays and taking breaks throughout the year then I'm not sure it is as fair on the employer - firstly it isn't likely as serious if it only takes 2 days and secondly it was perhaps avoidable if they'd used the holidays they were entitled to to begin with. (this bunching up of holidays to the end of the year was a big problem in my previous place - I wouldn't be surprised if people were more stressed as a result than if they'd made use of them more sensibly)


Sometimes people don't help themselves and I do wonder if perhaps in some industries they're going to need to force people go home at certain times to stop overworking. On one hand it is good to have the flexibility to be able to work long hours near deadlines on the other hand people aren't always good at balancing this and some will end up working long hours regularly for the sake of it and/or some workplaces develop a culture of long working hours even if it isn't necessarily productive - I do wonder how many stay late for the sake of it etc.. just because they think they ought to or worse they prevailing culture means they're expected to.