Enoch

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Whilst reading through the BBC website I happened to come across an article entitled...

The woman that never was?

Which refers to the woman in Enoch Powell's prophetic Rivers of Blood speech. It's a nice article, lets read.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6287309.stm

Enoch Powell's infamous 'rivers of blood' speech at a Conservative Party meeting in Birmingham in 1968 marked both the end of his parliamentary career and the birth of an enduring mystery.

In that speech he quoted a letter which referred to the plight of an unnamed woman pensioner in his Wolverhampton constituency whose life had, he claimed, been ruined by immigration.

This, according to Powell, was her story: "She worked hard and did well, paid off her mortgage and began to put something by for her old age. Then the immigrants moved in. With growing fear, she saw one house after another taken over."

"She is becoming afraid to go out, windows are broken. She finds excreta pushed through her letterbox. When she goes out to the shops she is followed by children, charming wide-grinning piccaninnies."

'Media circus'

The next day, Tory leader Edward Heath sacked Powell from his shadow cabinet as the debate over his speech and arguments over immigration reached boiling point.

The country demanded to know who this woman was but Powell repeatedly refused to say.


The whole of Wolverhampton was trying to find out where this street was and who this woman was.

The BBC's former political correspondent Nick Jones, whose family were close friends with the Powells, remembers the media circus that followed as reporters tried to track down the woman.

"The whole of Wolverhampton was trying to find out where this street was and who this woman was. The Express and Star failed to find the woman or the street, the Sunday Times failed to find the woman or the street," he said.

Archive trawl

To this day nobody has been able to answer either question or prove allegations that Powell had made the woman up.

With the help of historian Dr Simon Burgess, Document travelled to Wolverhampton and trawled through electoral records, old phone books, newspaper cuttings and boxes of city archives, in an effort to solve the mystery.

Mr Powell said the woman lived in his Wolverhampton constituency

Finally, after extensive research, Dr Burgess came up with the street where he believes the woman Powell quoted in his speech lived.

Brighton Place is in the MP's old constituency of Wolverhampton South and isn't far from his former semi-detached home.

By 1968 it was almost entirely populated by immigrant families, except for a 61-year-old white woman living at number 4.

Immigration increased

Dr Burgess said: "I've been boiling down the 200 names that we arrived at and managed to find one individual who matches most of the essential points in the letter. And I can actually put a name to the face by saying that she was Drucilla Cotterill."

Just like the pensioner Powell quoted, Drucilla Cotterill owned her own home, lost her husband in the Second World War and stopped letting out her rooms to lodgers when immigration increased.


Other former residents of the street, which is now Brighton Mews, have confirmed to Document that excrement was pushed through a letterbox in this street and that nearly all those living here were black in the late 1960s.

So, given that Drucilla is the only person who fits the profile of Powell's pensioner, has this mystery finally been nailed?

Lord Howard of Rising seems to be in the unique position to answer that. He is currently the shadow minister for Culture, Media and Sport but was Powell's private secretary in 1968.

Enduring mystery

Before my arrival at his home, Lord Howard confirmed that he knows the name of the mystery woman. So, after all this time, is he prepared to give it to me?

"No," said Lord Howard.

"He (Powell) had a very strong view that if anybody who wrote to him in confidence, that should not be broken."

We've come up with a name and that name is, Drucilla Cotterill. Does that ring any bells with you?

He replied: "Listen, I'm very pleased that you've done all that work. I'm sure if you've done it, it's very valuable but don't expect me to comment on whether it's right or wrong because I've already told you I'm not going to say."

So, when do you think it'll be that the public will eventually find out for sure the identity of this particular lady?

"When I'm six foot under," he said.

The mystery looks set to endure just a little while longer.

Document is broadcast on BBC Radio 4 at 8pm on Monday 22 January.

Enoch was right. And it seems he wasn't even misleading over details either.
 
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Blacks, eh... what will those crazy negroes do next?

They're nearly as bad as muslims! :rolleyes:

Edit: I might have to add that I don't quite understand the purpose of the post, though the sentence 'And it seems he wasn't even misleading over details either.' suggests you are trying to highlight the innappropriate actions of the black people... 40 years ago.
 
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Visage said:
Did you know that black people cant swim?

Royality said:
Blacks, eh... what will those crazy negroes do next?

They're nearly as bad as muslims! :rolleyes:

Why is the immediate reaction of visage and his band of merry chaps to immediately mock and post garbage in any thread that might not confirm their world view?

Is the intention to provoke? Or to try and turn the thread into a state of ridicule so that no intelligent discussion can be had?

I believe it is called thread trashing and has become prevailent recently specifically from posters such as visage.

If you don't want to have a sensible discussion then please don't try to stop others from having one.
 
VIRII said:
Why is the immediate reaction of visage and his band of merry chaps to immediately mock and post garbage in any thread that might not confirm their world view?

Is the intention to provoke? Or to try and turn the thread into a state of ridicule so that no intelligent discussion can be had?

I believe it is called thread trashing and has become prevailent recently specifically from posters such as visage.

If you don't want to have a sensible discussion then please don't try to stop others from having one.

As I said in my first post, it seems from CBS's last sentence that the underlying reason from his post was to highlight the behaviour of the Black people in the story.

Also, my opinions are based on my interpretations not anyone elses.

I'd be interested to hear your interpretation of the OP.
 
I agree VIRII. i may not post often but always see the trashing that happens after a thread such as this is posted.

I was reading this article earlier and tbqfh it isn't too far from the the truth as I see it.

If you read the rivers of blood speech the figures predicted then aren't that far off the figures now either. All youve got to do is change some of the phrases and context to fit the year 2007 and its pretty scary. Oh well just got to sit back now and witness this thread get hideously derailed.

/Runs
 
What a great piece of 'cut and paste'. Perhaps if you had bothered to remove the title of the photo ('Wolverhampton street in the 1960s') and the various attributions ('Nick Jones - Former BBC correspondent' and 'Lord Howard - Former private secretary to Enoch Powell') it would have read better but hey, you can't have everything.

Enoch Powell was of course a bit off the mark with his 'rivers of blood' prediction.
 
jegz said:
All youve got to do is change some of the phrases and context to fit the year 2007 and its pretty scary.

Also change a burger with chicken and Maccy D's becomes KFC; this statement is pretty irrelevant.

The reasons threads like these get derailed is invariably due to the OP's having heavy undertones of ridicule for some idea or people. Does CBS ever actually give a clear or concise opinion on the matter? No. He makes a post and then adds ambiguous comments designed to spark criticism/support.
 
Royality said:
As I said in my first post, it seems from CBS's last sentence that the underlying reason from his post was to highlight the behaviour of the Black people in the story.

Also, my opinions are based on my interpretations not anyone elses.

I'd be interested to hear your interpretation of the OP.

Enoch was right and he was not misleading over the woman.

The above is what you wish me to comment upon?

Ok I see 2 things. Firstly the cut and paste article is precisely what it relates to. Enoch Powell claimed there was a woman who was being pushed out of her home by an influx of immigrants who were pushing crap through her letterbox. He was accused of lying because he would not name the woman and sacked for it too.
It is often suggested that he had made the whole thing up. This seems to indicate he was infact right about the woman, he was telling the truth, the woman and her description of what was happening to her was true.

Secondly Enoch Powell predicted a strong probability if not certainity that if immigration was allowed to continue unabated that there would be massive future civil unrest and violent reaction. That British people would have their identities eroded and that they would be made to feel like strangers or second class citizens in their own land.

My impression is that CBS feels that the woman was indeed real and might even now be nameable and that the fears of future civil unrest over racial and cultural differences will also prove to be right.
 
The problem in question has nothing to do with race and immigration, and everything to do with scum. There's white scum and black scum. There's native scum and immigrant scum. Sort out the scum, and you sort out the problem.

Now sure, tighter immigration controls will keep some scum out, but that's not about keeping immigrants out - it's about keeping scum out.

Now, if only we could deport homegrown scum...
 
Shackley said:
What a great piece of 'cut and paste'. Perhaps if you had bothered to remove the title of the photo ('Wolverhampton street in the 1960s') and the various attributions ('Nick Jones - Former BBC correspondent' and 'Lord Howard - Former private secretary to Enoch Powell') it would have read better but hey, you can't have everything.

Enoch Powell was of course a bit off the mark with his 'rivers of blood' prediction.
Was he? I wasn't aware that there was a deadline on predicitions?

Haven't you had your wrist slapped for a lot of cut n paste and link n run in SC in the past?
 
Royality said:
He makes a post and then adds ambiguous comments designed to spark criticism/support.

Also known as discussion and debate... but it seems comments on the thread starter are of higher priority to some here than any analysis of content either way.
 
Royality said:
Also change a burger with chicken and Maccy D's becomes KFC; this statement is pretty irrelevant.

The reasons threads like these get derailed is invariably due to the OP's having heavy undertones of ridicule for some idea or people. Does CBS ever actually give a clear or concise opinion on the matter? No. He makes a post and then adds ambiguous comments designed to spark criticism/support.
I thought his opinion on the matter was pretty clear and posted my understanding of it :confused:
How does the OP have heavy tones of ridicule? It is a direct cut and paste from the BBC?
 
cleanbluesky said:
Also known as discussion and debate... but it seems comments on the thread starter are of higher priority to some here than any analysis of content either way.
It does indeed seem in GD that attacking posters is far more important than attacking the arguments presented.
 
VIRII said:
Was he? I wasn't aware that there was a deadline on predicitions?
Actually, I thought he had talked about 15 to 20 years. However, I will bow to your greater knowledge of the wise words of Mr. Powell and accept that he may have meant in a Millennium or so.

VIRII said:
Haven't you had your wrist slapped for a lot of cut n paste and link n run in SC in the past?
Not that I know of :confused: Presumably your obsession with RTMing everyone who doesn't agree absolutely with you hasn't had the effect you hoped for.

Quick, quick fire off amnother RTM :D
 
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