Entry level dev role - some advice

CREATIVE!11 · 3 Jun 2023 at 11:00

So i've been made an offer for an entry level dev role, i've been learning to code myself for about a year and a bit, following that I did a bootcamp full time.

I wanted to ask some advice on what I should do, whether to take the role or not, perhaps i'm being silly and worrying about nothing. The tech stack is pretty much bootstrap on frontend (which is easy no problem) but the backend I believe is PHP. So i'd have to be learning an entirely new language/framework for the role as it has me concerned i'll be able to perform.

Is this a normal thing in tech? They really liked my portfolio of work and spoke highly of it at interview and that's possibly why they just think they can take me on and i'll learn.

My specialities lie mostly in frontend with React (But of course most libraries/frameworks are similar), I can easily build a pretty/fancy UI no problem if i'm handed a design spec, and i've dabbled in backend work/database stuff. The role they are taking me on for is basically full stack but with tools I just don't know and it has me concerned. The other thing that has me somewhat concerned is they are a smaller company with a not very large dev team, and that leads me to worry about lack of mentorship / oversight (The role is also fully remote which is a dream sure, but as a first role I believe can present additional challenges).

The issue I face right now is entry roles are few and far between and there's probably a lot of competition. I'd love to be hired on doing a role which basically matches my current skills, as I could hit the ground running no problem and begin contributing easily.

What would you do in my situation those of you who are wiser and more experienced? The smart choice is to just take the role, get experience on my CV and stop being a worrier I guess.

And other note is, i've only been applying properly for around 3-4 weeks, but rejections have of course come in during that time shaking my confidence of finding something that's a better fit.

Zefan · 3 Jun 2023 at 11:25

I wish everyone had your self awareness.

I am not a dev, so my viewpoint is perhaps limited, but to me it's a no brainer if the rest of the package is looking good. I would provisionally accept but ask for a call to discuss with them (if possible, including your prospective team lead/line manager, which I presume was on the interview). This will allow expectations to be set on both sides, and show you're the sort of person who is able to identify challenges and build solutions yourself outside of the direct technical work your role requires. I'd propose a plan for mentorship and targets to ensure both sides have a clear vision of what progression looks like within your first x months. I'd be absolutely elated to see a new employee making this sort of self observation and coming in hot with a fix without me needing to do anything. Their reaction may well be to just chill, that they don't need any solid plan and that they are happy to let you pick things up at your own pace, but it will at least put you at ease.

But then, I am not a dev, and my experience lies in managing a small team/hiring a handful of Windows system admins, so take it for what it's worth

BongoHunter · 6 Jun 2023 at 09:08

I would take it and not worry too much.

There's always going to be tools and frameworks you don't know when taking on a dev role. You'll spend the first few weeks getting setup and getting someone else to take you through how they use the tooling and manage deployments.
I don't think I've ever taken a role where I knew all the tools/frameworks on day 1, and when I recruit its not something I expect either.

dowie · 6 Jun 2023 at 21:38

CREATIVE!11 said:
Is this a normal thing in tech? They really liked my portfolio of work and spoke highly of it at interview and that's possibly why they just think they can take me on and i'll learn.

Don't see why not, just make sure to manage expectations, so long as it's clear that this is your very first dev job and that your experience is in X but you're also keen and willing to pick up Y (you've already demonstrated you can self learn so why not) then I don't see the big deal. They can't reasonably expect you to be some domain expert in the stuff you've never touched and you'll may well have a few months of settling into the role anyway even with regards to the stuff you do know as adding to an existing codebase, getting used to internal procedures, documentation etc.. is still going to be new too.

Also we've got ChatGPT these days, very very useful for rapidly picking up new stuff, giving you quick explanations, simple examples, assisting with error messages etc..

NickK · 7 Jun 2023 at 05:08

BongoHunter said:
I would take it and not worry too much.

There's always going to be tools and frameworks you don't know when taking on a dev role. You'll spend the first few weeks getting setup and getting someone else to take you through how they use the tooling and manage deployments. I don't think I've ever taken a role where I knew all the tools/frameworks on day 1, and when I recruit its not something I expect either.

This.

The frameworks and languages will change over time, and by getting experience (but not stuck only in one language) you will appreciate what is suitable for specific applications.

You will also learn around the language (ie how engineering works, lifecycles, environments, quality, requirements etc) and looking forward it will seem such a small part of the role when you look back on it.

(I started my first software engineering role in Jan 1997)

throwaway4372 · 7 Jun 2023 at 07:35

Php is easy and well documented, you'll be able to figure it out. The question is how useful that is, as php roles tend to be less well paid, but perhaps you're not in the position to be picky.

Normally a dev will find a stack they like and take jobs with that stack, but learning new things is fine too. It's about managing your depth and breadth of experience. A bit of php is fine, but probably isn't your long term choice. But maybe you'll love it who knows.

Remote work is great if you're experienced, but it's a huge struggle if you're not. The small team thing isn't necessarily a problem, the most effective dev teams tend to be teams of 3 devs. If you're working individually though then I would say it's a problem and do not take it.

It is very difficult to tell whether a dev role is going to be good. I have a ton of experience and still get lemons. If you end up not liking the role you can manage the situation, do it for a year so it's not a black mark on your cv and its easier to find a job when you already have one. If you do end up liking this role chances are you'll still end up leaving for more money after a couple of years anyway.

Mr Jack · 7 Jun 2023 at 08:02

Most of that I think is fine, but I'd be worried about remote as an entry level job. You need to be learning from people around you and building connections that will help you later. That's hard to do remotely.

jon86 · 10 Jun 2023 at 11:46

throwaway4372 said:
If you do end up liking this role chances are you'll still end up leaving for more money after a couple of years anyway.

You definitely should be leaving after a few years, whether you like it or not, otherwise you're doing yourself a disservice and not earning your (continually increasing) true potential. Employers typically only pay you just enough for you to feel comfortable, but they don't keep your compensation in line with your true market rate. You can only get that by leaving and going elsewhere.

LuckyBenski · 10 Jun 2023 at 12:26

Agree with basically every other post above including the OP:

- I blagged my way sideways into a front-end dev role at work (OK, I "skilled up"/learned enough of our systems to join the team)

- I had no professional training in software dev, just had some basic coding experience from uni. So I was lacking in process like deployment, shared code practises like GitHub and version control, etc etc

- Between applying and landing the role, covid happened so I was fully remote as a developer

- I sat in the role feeling underskilled for 2 years, due to little oversight and no proper training or nurturing. I was useful to the team, but largely as a SME in our device family and wider company process/knowledge. This is fine, but it did not feel good to wear a hat I wasn't suited to rather than say, "Config and deployment expert". I wrote very little fresh code and mostly did reviews, testing, bug finding and looked after our device database. I didn't learn much pure coding over this period

- I simultaneously felt underpaid for the job title vs industry rates, and overpaid for my skill level. Neither my skill level nor the pay changed much, so I ended up wishing I could find a "junior" or entry level role at an org with better onboarding and training facilities.

I'm glad I took the role on, as it was originally suggested to me as "Would you like to try this on for a year" and I loved my team and the work we did. I just couldn't escape the imposter syndrome that came with my knowledge gaps. I've now gone back around to the testing and conformance team with new skills and knowledge gained from my time on the development team, but it was a painful 2 years. I don't know if I could or would apply for anoyher developer role any time soon. I'd love to be a developer but maybe I aimed for the wrong industry (smart TVs so frontend web apps) and I should aim for something more familiar like C/C++, Python, games.

OP you sound like you've done a better job than me at developing your skills and also at knowing your skill level - I'd suggest you take the job, knowing you're new and the employer knowing that too. Expect to a) Have some knowledge gaps at the start, b) Learn a lot in your first year or two and c) command an upgrade in title or pay within a couple of years. You're on the right track and the job offer sounds good.