Epson LS11000/LS12000 Experience + HDMI cable advice

ginjaninja · 7 Aug 2023 at 20:59

I am looking to update an old Epson EH-TW3200 to go with a 4090 PC.
Anyone got experience.... pros / cons for this Epson laser? anything else to consider in its price range?

Room is 100% light controlled. Projector is ceiling mounted. Fixed 203cm (Horizontal) 16:9 screen projected from 12.5 feet away.
Will use for 4K/120Hz gaming and 1080P/4K Cinema.

Old HDMI cable is 10M bought in HDMI1.2 days.....Am I recommended to buy a new 48GBs cable? They seem quite pricy...any recommended brands?

Thank you for any feedback/advice.

ginjaninja · 9 Aug 2023 at 05:40

Broken Hope said:
10 meters for HDMI 2.1 won’t be cheap as you’ll have to go optical.

is that borderline? the retailer has suggested a 'standard' 10m 48GBs non optical cable...ie non opticals do exist.

ginjaninja · 9 Aug 2023 at 12:55

heeeed said:
I’ve got the 12000b which is fairly similar and very happy in a light controlled room. Mine is 100” screen and something like 5m distance ceiling mounted. I went with an optical hdmi as I had a 10m run also and the cable was being fed into the ceiling so I didn’t want to try something cheaper and find it wouldn’t do the full spec. In the grand scheme of it the cable is cheap compared to projector itself…

The shop suggested a Sony vpl-xw5000es, i was sorely tempted. I suspect the Sony does have a better picture/black levels but on balance I value the 120hz at 4K of the Epsom, for gaming higher (not because ive been able to demo them side by side...just on faith). They are willing to throw in the non optical version 'included' so i can try it and see how i find it.

ginjaninja · 11 Aug 2023 at 04:28

i went for the ls12000b in the end. it came with a directional hdmi cable with a usb widget at the projector end (precision bluestream)...which the ls12000b seems to support..

didnt know hdmi was directional or what thd usb widget does..seems to supply power...but why? and will the 4090 at the other end 'like' that power (300mv?)

any ideas?

edit

HDMI's latest revision adds "HDMI cable power" to make longer cables possible

Longer HDMI 2.1 cables are on the horizon

overclock3d.net

are so cable power is a thing...just need to confirm the gpu doesnt mind

ginjaninja · 12 Aug 2023 at 10:23

SenTineL said:
The power is just for long cable runs, to minimise any signal loss over the length of the cable.

It’s likely directional as the amplifier was designed to transmit in only one direction. I don’t think you’ll have any issues with your 4090.

I’ve seen a few powered solutions before – I browse the AVSForum now and again and some of the time, work and money that goes into custom builds in the States is mind blowing. Huge themed rooms and equipment in an adjacent room ends up with really long cable runs, so to ensure minimal signal loss en-route to the projector (or video wall!) some sort of powered cable is used.

thanks, got no response from asus, and was buoyed on by above and gave it a go.
everything seems fine and image is stable at 4K/120.

quite pleased with the 12000b...the brightness is very good so can open windows, let a bit of light in in summer; the fan noise and heat output of laser vs lamp is better; and this is at the default 75% setting for light output.

edit
info for anyone doing a firmware update...that was nerve racking.
the instructions say the indicators will start flashing when upgrade is in progress do not remove power, when update is finished the standby light will be lit
The instructions also say all the indicators will start flashing if the update fails... remove the power cord Epson there will be a repair charge...

updating the firmware gives no quality of life info like current version vs version on usb.
As soon as i hit [update the firmware]...the fan went on full, all the lights started to flash...screen went blank / no pregress indicator...[was thinking oh ****]
but after ~ five minutes the pj powered down..but no blue standby light [was thinking oh ****]
pressed the power on...everything came back to life firmware updated ...******** firmware update procedure and set of instructions ever! almost had a heart attack.

i was on factory default, latest firmware seems important for HDR support.

ginjaninja · 14 Aug 2023 at 21:47

hit my first problem. The projector cant display the bios screen (only tested by HDMI) ) asus x670e. An alternative monitor on DP works fine...when i look at what windows thinks the device understands it goes down to 800x600...maybe the bios resolution and refresh rate is too low? Ive disabled the IGFX and am using the ports on the NVIDIA gpu.

ginjaninja · 15 Aug 2023 at 08:39

SenTineL said:
I don't honestly know what the default resolution and refresh rate are in bios. Probably 800 x 600 max? That might well be below the minimum rate supported by the PJ. I've certainly never seen bios pop up on mine (or tried to get into it to be fair), but my JVC is really slow to lock onto resolution / refresh rate changes, so no real surprise there.

There should be list of supported resolutions and rates in the manual somewhere, so you can start to narrow it down...

interesting, good to know lack of bios visibility is 'a thing'...if i find a solution will post.

ginjaninja · 16 Aug 2023 at 19:35

intersting...I'm not sure the "primary device" hypothesis holds (or at least answers it completely) although i suspect primary device has a part to play in terms of which device outputs the bios screen..
...my bios shows on monitor when a monitor is connected to the 4090's DP port but doesnt show on PJ when the PJ is connected via hdmi port on 4090. so on the same 4090 device ..some ports / devices work and some dont..
My bios say the primary device is set to "auto" and i belive if a PCIe GPU (4090) is detected the PCIe GPU (4090) is is primary. Also i have the disabled the iGPU in bios in any case...

I suspect it may be a signal lock on issue...for the 1st time i actually saw the bios logo as the windows hamster wheel whirred....ie in a low resolution prior to OS startup...i perhaps should try with a short cable and see if that changes anything. The PJ is slow to display when resolution is changed in windows...maybe it has trouble "locking on." (quickly) (on low resolutions)..

ginjaninja · 18 Aug 2023 at 19:48

it seems "HDMI lock" is a thing and the ls12000b is 'bad' at it.....

ginjaninja · 20 Aug 2023 at 19:30

Ive got to the bottom of it and my bios is showing on PJ (albeit having to press del/f2 without being able to see it as you suggested)

There are issues with X670 and Nvidia 4000 gpus, compounded by using the secondary hdmi port for display. its seems reading NVIDIA forums and youtube

Issue 1 - No display at all ever (4000+x670?)...nvidia provide a firmware update (i already had the fw update)
Issue 2 - No display on any ports on 1st cold boot ... turn off fast startup (windows power setting) (<i suffered from this)
Issue 3 - No bios display ..use primary hdmi not secondary hdmi port (you suggested this but issue 2 hid this solution to me)

thanks for help.

i was concerned given points above the non optical cable wasnt up to the task...but now i believe my powered cable is fine and the LS1200b is slower to lock on to HDMI signal.

next task... undervolting now ive have felt how much heat the GPU kicks out.

ginjaninja · 28 Aug 2023 at 09:08

ginjaninja said:
Ive got to the bottom of it and my bios is showing on PJ (albeit having to press del/f2 without being able to see it as you suggested)

There are issues with X670 and Nvidia 4000 gpus, compounded by using the secondary hdmi port for display. its seems reading NVIDIA forums and youtube

Issue 1 - No display at all ever (4000+x670?)...nvidia provide a firmware update (i already had the fw update)
Issue 2 - No display on any ports on 1st cold boot ... turn off fast startup (windows power setting) (<i suffered from this)
Issue 3 - No bios display ..use primary hdmi not secondary hdmi port (you suggested this but issue 2 hid this solution to me)

thanks for help.

i was concerned given points above the non optical cable wasnt up to the task...but now i believe my powered cable is fine and the LS1200b is slower to lock on to HDMI signal.

next task... undervolting now ive have felt how much heat the GPU kicks out.

I hadn't got to the bottom of it...
a bit more learning.

[true for HDMI ports/my setup at least and reading more forums suggests that BIOS output on NVIDIA GPUs with multi monitor is a thing from time immemorial]

My 4090 GPU [suspect its not a 4090 specific thing] designates port numbers internally prior to Windows
on the 4090 TUF the HDMI port in line with most other ports is port 1. the offset HDMI port is port 2.
the GPU displays BIOS output on the highest available [HDMI at least] port number.
so i can get post output now on HDMI port 1 as long as HDMI port 2 is not active (i.e. doesn't have a device switched on / connected to port 2)

Windows assigns monitor numbers independently of GPU port numbering (based on detection order)
incidentally if you ever want to reset - see method 2.

So strangely / obtusely the GPU does not output the bios on port 1 when port 2 is active. Youd think it would permanently prioritise port 1..not flip flop depending on whether port 2 was active or not.

TL/DR;
By keeping port 2 off during boot i can see BIOS on port 1. i turn on my AVR on port 2 after Windows if i want to see BIOS on port 1.
and by following the linked article i was able to reset Windows monitoring numbering and get Windows to see GPU port 1 as Windows monitor 1...which is useful because lots of apps were launching on the wrong desktop and it was getting annoying.

hope it helps someone.

ginjaninja · 6 Sep 2023 at 14:27

I dont think you will be disappointed by LS12000, its seems a great gaming projector. that said quite an expense to a marginal uplift in cinema appreciation from the TW9400 (but perhaps you can get a good trade in / second hand as you say.)......I do think the 120hz sub 20ms response time is very nice for gaming.

EDIT
in the end i got frustrated by the AVR port 2 thing and in the end im upgrading to a 4K 120hz AVR.
Ive done a test at home between sony ta-an1000 and denon x3800h on my B&W 683 theatre set....3 people all reckon the x3800h is significantly better for stereo music.
Im now testing a yamaha rx-a6a against the x3800h and after that a power amp for stereo fronts with a cheap AVR.