Soldato
Anybody know how tuneable, reliable, etc the Ford Essex V6 lump is?
Essex V6?
- Thread starter volospian
- Start date
Lashout_UK said:Stick with the straight 6'sInfinitiely superior engine
(he says, avoiding heavy & wheezy cunningly)
It's not for the GT, I'm thinking of aquiring something more practical than a 2 seater rust magnet and am looking at a Scimitar GTE. They come with the Essex or cologne (but I'd opt for the Essex engined version for styling and so on). Apparently they are fairly easy to convert to Rover V8 power, so I may think about that. it would probably be cheaper to go Rover to 200hp than Essex by the sound of it.
Lashout_UK said:Dolomite!
Yeah, I've always liked the scimitar though. I even like the back.
I'd probably opt for an SE6a:
Something like this with a decent V8 in sound slike a good plan
penski said:
I'll look into it. I have read already that the Rover SD1 engine mates up to the scim engine mounts without mods, there's just a bit of tunnel work to get the 'box in. Sounds like a nice easy conversion.
However, I would prefer yank muscle and the 302 is a definate maybe, depending ont he amount of work involved.
penski said:
Yeah, I know
tbh I wasn't thinking originally of much more than, say, 220ish HP. I just wanted the scim to be the car it should have been. Pretty fast, reliable and a good cruiser. I'm after it for everyday driving and the fact that it's very practical.
Mind you, as the essex clearly isn't up to the task, an engine swap sounds like the best way forward and if I'm going to the trouble of that, I may as well get some real horses in there.
My only issue is cost. rover lumps are ten a penny, but yank power seems to be more difficult to find and more expensive than the rover lump.
Lashout_UK said:
yeah, that's what I'm wondering about. I'm sure it could be made to handle some decent power/speed though.
With some work you can fit a Jag IRS rear end. It sounds fairly straight forward, but I don't know how much work it would really mean, plus what affect all the welding would have on the chassis (later ones were galvanised and new steel could be a weak spot for rust, I suppose)
http://www.v8church.co.uk/jaguar_irs_scimitar_gte_2.html
That also changes the rear to disk brakes. There are some instructions on how to fit willwood 4 pots to the front too. I'd imagine such a set up should be able to handle a moderately tuned yank lump.
One other thing about yank power is the weight. The essex is around 380lbs, the 302 seems to weigh in closer to 420lbs (thats with ally heads, more like 450 without) while the rover weighs in at 320lbs. In that case going Rover saves 60lbs in weight, while even a lightweight 302 adds around 40lbs up the front.
Either way the brake balance and suspension will probably need some adjustment.
Actually, looking at the weights, it looks like the Alfa Romeo SOHC V6 is around the same weight as the essex. I wonder how much work it would be to fit one of those.....
Hmmm, I may have to investigate that route. It would mean very little messing around with the suspension/brakes due to weight ratios.
mind you, the lightweight rover may push the distribution backwards quite a bit and aid in handling, once the brake balance is sorted.
mind you, the lightweight rover may push the distribution backwards quite a bit and aid in handling, once the brake balance is sorted.
Hmmm...
So the Alpha V6 may fit and keep the balance, but it may be a hassle to get a bell housing made up. The 302 will fit without the hassle, but will probably move the weight 60/40 to the front. My current motor is probably somewhere in that region, and it can get a bit wild at times with no weight on the rear.
So that leaves the Rover. It fits, it's lighter, helping the balance, and there are plenty around... shame it costs so much to get a decent power output, but I suppose if I can get ~200hp from a 3.9 unit it should be fine, especially as they are supposed to put out ~230lb/ft torque.
I'm not after a dragster, just a quick, powerful cruiser that will embarrass a lot of modern motors. I think, considering it apparently weighs in at just over a ton, that 200 horses should be OK.
So the Alpha V6 may fit and keep the balance, but it may be a hassle to get a bell housing made up. The 302 will fit without the hassle, but will probably move the weight 60/40 to the front. My current motor is probably somewhere in that region, and it can get a bit wild at times with no weight on the rear.
So that leaves the Rover. It fits, it's lighter, helping the balance, and there are plenty around... shame it costs so much to get a decent power output, but I suppose if I can get ~200hp from a 3.9 unit it should be fine, especially as they are supposed to put out ~230lb/ft torque.
I'm not after a dragster, just a quick, powerful cruiser that will embarrass a lot of modern motors. I think, considering it apparently weighs in at just over a ton, that 200 horses should be OK.
At risk of starting this conversation up again. I've found out that the Jag IRS axle (with powerlok LSD) is heavier than the original item. This would throw the balance towards the back meaning that a heavier engine in the front would be required, so Ford 302 looks like a good idea if I go for the IRS conversion
Considering a brand new one is around £2k cheaper than a rover equivalent, I think it is starting to make sense.
Considering a brand new one is around £2k cheaper than a rover equivalent, I think it is starting to make sense.
penski said:
That looks pretty much like it. Even the wife likes the idea (well, the basic idea, she has no idea what a 302 is
) as we get all the boxes ticked. A classic car, a practical car (4 seats, big boot), a fast car (350+hp should be quick enough), a good looking car (imho).I was going to buy a Jag S-Type R or M5, but I'm beginning to think it would be a good idea to throw my money at this project. Totally stripped down, work on the chassis done properly, brand new engine/gearbox, overhauled axle, respary and some glassfibre work on the body, leather interior, carbon and leather trim, quality carpets, rewired electrics and so on....
Hopefully, by the time I've finished it will look well sorted
vanpeebles said:you might as well buy that mg 75 thing with the mustang v8
Why?
Lashout_UK said:Volospian, I'd find a mint (and I mean mint, not "Yea mate, it's mint innit" mint car) Car and just destroy the engine and box, replace
Saves any hassle with paint etc, seen some lovely ones around. Might just make it a bit more bearable to do.
Sounds like you got it sorted though. Gonna rule!
Yeah, but then I'd have to take the body off anyway to get to the chassis to do the IRS change. There's quite a bit of welding to be done for the conversion and it would probably be best to do it with the body off, plus it gives you a chance to fully inspect the chassis for rust and so on (I'm going to use an SE6b or late SE6a as these have a galvanised chassis, so rust shouldn't be an issue, but you never know!)
I'm also intending to do some work on the body as well. The tunnel needs widening to fit the 'box so I may as well get some other bits done at the same time. I think the scim has a "false" grille on the front, as the spare tyre is mounted in front of the engine. I'm going to remove the spare (and add a tin of tyreweld stuff
) and rework the grille so that it actually does something. I saw one guy who had changed the rear lights too, and that was quite interesting. I may do something similar (not lexus stylee though )This is a relatively long term project though as I'm still finishing the GT and I aint got room for any more cars (and the wife would go nuts) so the plan is to probably sell the GT at the start of next summer (I want at least one summer use out of it with the retrim, and selling in the winter would devalue it) and buy a scim then. I'd also use some of the GT money to buy a cheapo runaround until the scim is finished. I just haven't got the space and resources to do this at the moment and anyway, I've got to find the back end of a Jag S-Type (Original, not the modern one) for the IRS axle. It does give me a chance to get some items gathered together ready to go in though.
Having said all that, I'm pretty certain this is a go-er as far as projects go. It just makes a lot of sense to me, as I said it ticks all my boxes.
The other option is to swap the GT for a scim if anyone's interested (Practicle Classics have a swap section). I should be able to get an A1 scim for the value of the GT.
vanpeebles said:save all the hassle and cost
Yeah, but you still only end up with a rover 75 with added plastic. If you think the scimitar is as aesthetically pleasing as a 75, that's fine, but I think they ming. And under powered. The engine I'm intending to put in the scim will pump out around 350 - 400hp
Something like this:
5.0L 375 bhp GT40 engine with Performer RPM alloy heads & balance £5,785
Dogbreath said:
True, but then I could blow the ford lump too. Procharger and FMIC could be plumbed in as part of the design. A quick glance at the procharger site suggests that for a 9.6 compression ratio I should be able to boost around 12psi. They reckon that gives around 80% boost, that's around 670hp from the 5.0 unit. The 5.8 daytona unit would pump out around 720hp in the same way (and it's actually £500 cheaper than the GT40 egine).
Hmmm.... ~700hp per ton? sounds interesting
IainB said:I just knew that had to come into it as soon as you started mentioning a SBF
Don't, I really don't want to get into that area, although a small bit of boost does sound interesting, probably somewhere around 500hp sounds good. Mind you, I suppose it will depend on how much power a powerlok diff will take.
I wasn't seriously thinking of blowing it, the daytona 5.8 engine putting out 400hp sounds fine for me. I was just thinking that I could blow it if I wanted.
He says, almost certain that if this does go ahead, for the price of a procharger set up, and considering the engine will be built from new specifically for the car, he may as well put some FI through those TB's