ESXi + Server 2008 + System State Restore

Dangerous · 1 Feb 2010 at 18:38

I'm starting to dislike server 2008! Setup is we have a DR ESXi server that has all our live servers in so in the event of systems failure we boot up the ESXi server and restore system states/data/exchange etc.

Simple?

Well it was until we purchased Windows Server 2008 which was fine until sorting out the system state backup and then restore

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18108391

So I've tested the restore today and after the system restored the VM machined BSOD on boot up the standard stop error (00000007b) Can't find the drive or system boot changed.

So has anyone restored a live 2008 systemstate into ESXi server and got it working? From google reports I add the VMWARE driver and change the SCSI card about but like to speak to someone before messing about.

Sin_Chase · 1 Feb 2010 at 21:47

Uhm, you cannot dump a physical hardware system state in a VMware machine 'as is' because, like you have identified, the controller driver is different.

You may have success by installing the VMware controller driver on your physical hardware but in my experience it has been a bit hit or miss. Really you should be using agents to handle the backup for you so it's re-storable in an indifferent hardware situation.

What we tend to do in indifferent boot controller cases with 2 physical boxes is slap the DR one in the server( not attached to anything) install it and get the drivers in the OS. This does not guarantee Windows will boot off it though.

I've not done enough P2V backup/restore processes to advise what will defiantly work and what will not. All I know is that migrating system sate to indifferent hardware is FAR harder than it should be.

Ev0 · 1 Feb 2010 at 21:58

As above you can't generally dump a physical machine backup onto a virtual.

I'm not up on the backups at our place but know we use Backup exec for it all, use platespin for p2v stuff and are just about to go down the veeam route for snapshot based backups.

Dangerous · 1 Feb 2010 at 21:58

Sin_Chase said:
Uhm, you cannot dump a physical hardware system state in a VMware machine 'as is' because, like you have identified, the controller driver is different.

You may have success by installing the VMware controller driver on your physical hardware but in my experience it has been a bit hit or miss. Really you should be using agents to handle the backup for you so it's re-storable in an indifferent hardware situation.

What we tend to do in indifferent boot controller cases with 2 physical boxes is slap the DR one in the server( not attached to anything) install it and get the drivers in the OS. This does not guarantee Windows will boot off it though.

I've not done enough P2V backup/restore processes to advise what will defiantly work and what will not. All I know is that migrating system sate to indifferent hardware is FAR harder than it should be.

With Server 2003 is not a problem backing up a live SS and restoring into VM'd - Ive done it loads of time without any problems.

2008 is different because it backup 10 times more information - It can be done by changing the SCSI controller and a couple of other things.

Anyone else got any comments ?

Dangerous · 1 Feb 2010 at 22:00

Ev0 said:
As above you can't generally dump a physical machine backup onto a virtual.

I'm not up on the backups at our place but know we use Backup exec for it all, use platespin for p2v stuff and are just about to go down the veeam route for snapshot based backups.

Once the sever is VM'd, Server 2003 System will restore without any problems. The problem is server 2008 backups more information in the system state backup so the workaround is installing the VMware SCSI driver on the host and amending the controller on the VMware config.

Ev0 · 1 Feb 2010 at 22:05

I'll ask the vm bod at our place tomorrow, he's also the backup guy

Dangerous · 1 Feb 2010 at 22:07

Ev0 said:
I'll ask the vm bod at our place tomorrow, he's also the backup guy

Cheers I've got the VMware article for Server 2008. But others must be in the same place?

I need to test R2 to see if I would get any problems there.

Backup Exec will give you the same problems as its just restoring the same thing as the wbadmin command.

Sin_Chase · 2 Feb 2010 at 01:03

Dangerous said:
Once the sever is VM'd, Server 2003 System will restore without any problems. The problem is server 2008 backups more information in the system state backup so the workaround is installing the VMware SCSI driver on the host and amending the controller on the VMware config.

I would suggest this was more luck/different backup methods than technical ability of 2003.

2003 has the exact same boot controller issues you are seeing with 2008 when restoring system state. If it didn't, my life would be so much easier.

King Arthur · 2 Feb 2010 at 08:48

Hi,

I woud suggest using the VMWare Console to turn it into a VM for you via the proper conversion utility, then import it back in. Its not quite as simple as your making it look sorry.

Unless im missing something

Phil

Dangerous · 2 Feb 2010 at 09:35

Sin_Chase said:
I would suggest this was more luck/different backup methods than technical ability of 2003.

2003 has the exact same boot controller issues you are seeing with 2008 when restoring system state. If it didn't, my life would be so much easier.

2008 System State backups are 9GB compared to 600-800mb of 2003. 2008 backups more driver information that 2003 ever did, you can see that from the size of the backup file!

PhilipB_OcUk said:
Hi,

I woud suggest using the VMWare Console to turn it into a VM for you via the proper conversion utility, then import it back in. Its not quite as simple as your making it look sorry.

Unless im missing something

Phil

Yes Server is already VM'd - I'm updating the system state only for DR reasons.

Sin_Chase · 2 Feb 2010 at 13:16

Backup size of the system state has nothing to do with what it contains.

System state restores drivers in 2003. You cannot restore Server 2003 System State to indifferent hardware. End of.

This is not something that "should just work" Conversion tools exist for a reason, as do backup agents which are aimed at exactly what you are doing.

You converted it to VM which did all the hardware driver stuff. You cant just put a physical system state back on-top of it.

Just to re-iterate. You CANNOT put 2003 system state onto indifferent hardware and expect to boot it (Without plenty of work)

Dangerous · 2 Feb 2010 at 13:25

Sin_Chase said:
Backup size of the system state has nothing to do with what it contains.

System state restores drivers in 2003. You cannot restore Server 2003 System State to indifferent hardware. End of.

This is not something that "should just work" Conversion tools exist for a reason, as do backup agents which are aimed at exactly what you are doing.

You converted it to VM which did all the hardware driver stuff.
Just to re-iterate. You CANNOT put 2003 system state onto indifferent You cant just put a physical system state back on-top of it.
hardware and expect to boot it (Without plenty of work)

LOOL

I am restoring live system state from 2003 physical servers on to its VM'd state Jesus!

Its working fine and have done it without ANY PROBLEMS! I have been testing this setup for over 12 months now.

Sin_Chase · 2 Feb 2010 at 14:01

I give up, you do not get it. Re-read the bit where I said you lucked out or have some previous work done you are unaware about that is allowing you to do this.

Go base build a 2003 physical server, back up System State with ntbackup, restore it on a VM. Report back.

Good luck with your 2008 "issue".

Dangerous · 2 Feb 2010 at 14:30

Sin_Chase said:
I give up, you do not get it. Re-read the bit where I said you lucked out or have some previous work done you are unaware about that is allowing you to do this.

Go base build a 2003 physical server, back up System State with ntbackup, restore it on a VM. Report back.

Good luck with your 2008 "issue".

No I am getting what you are saying. Yes If I just built up the physical server then tried to restore the system state yes I would get errors.

I might of not made it clear the my VM server is a copy of the physical server using the vCentre Convertor.

I have taken 4 2003 severs via this way and booted them up - Everything was fine because the vCentre did the driver work - Then restoring 2003 SS on top without any problems.

However the 2008 server again using the vCentre product boots the server fine and you can do anything you want with it until you attempt the restore of the SS as it must revert the hardware to its physical configuration and not the VM setup.

Sin_Chase · 2 Feb 2010 at 14:47

How was the 2003 server originally built and what RAID hardware is it using.

Doing a 1 off conversion will not change anything with the Live physical server and how it backs up system state. Unless vCenter Convertor messes with the live system state in a way I am unaware of.

Was the server originally a VM before it was put onto physical hardware? There is a reason the system state from it boots up fine in the VM, a base built 2003 server would not. Unless for some reason your RAID hardware works with the "generic" RAID controller drivers VMWare VMs use. You can bring up a HP E200i controller server on a P400 without too much hassle for example.

Converting it is pretty much a read only process, right? It does not make sense that you can put a physical system state into a VM and it boot, not unless something else is happening/happened.

I am only saying this as it seems like you are expecting 2008 to work like your 2003 has been, problem being, this is not normal 2003 behavior so I don't think you can draw that comparison. Might be leading you up the wrong path when pretty much everyone will tell you that you need to workaround it, use agents or it just wont work.

The swapping SCSI cards and getting drivers installed so Windows can boot from it is done on Server 2003 also, it's not 2008 specific.

BoomAM · 5 Feb 2010 at 21:44

Dangerous said:
I need to test R2 to see if I would get any problems there.

Haven't read the whole thread, but a word to the wise, unless VMWare have fixed it lately, dont use the E1000 nic on a R2 VM.
Causes random lockups.
And the video driver has been known to do it too.
Best thing to do is use VMXNET3 for ethernet, and do a custom VMWare Tools install, without the video driver.

.

Dangerous · 5 Feb 2010 at 22:32

Bit of a update - I have reverted back to Backup Execs remote restore agent and restored the System State and it didnt BSOD after reboot which was great.

Restore attempts after this take too long - More testing is required.