Poll: EU Referendum Voting Intentions

[Zethor]

My nightmare scenario of Brussels deciding to frack in west Lancashire to obtain cheap fuel for eastern Europe and new roads for southern Europe is entirely plausible if we are made to sign up to a common energy policy.

Lol. They're not just taking our jerbs, they're taking out fuel too.

 

[scorza]

Lol. They're not just taking our jerbs, they're taking out fuel too.

You mock but that's exactly what centralisation is - transfer of assets and control of those assets to a more central government. I won't apologise for being against anyone taking from the UK without giving in kind and at the moment it's rather difficult to see what the EU gives us.

 

[Zethor]

You mock but that's exactly what centralisation is - transfer of assets and control of those assets to a more central government. I won't apologise for being against anyone taking from the UK without giving in kind and at the moment it's rather difficult to see what the EU gives us.

How do you explain that Sweden, a country in which localism is applied with great success, has no problems with the EU?

 

[Mr Jack]

There's also a high degree of uncertainty about what the secret EU plan that Juncker, Barroso et all are implementing will result in as well. My nightmare scenario of Brussels deciding to frack in west Lancashire to obtain cheap fuel for eastern Europe and new roads for southern Europe is entirely plausible if we are made to sign up to a common energy policy.

This is just paranoid nonsense.

Fundamentally it's a referendum about whether you want our laws made in Britain, or Brussels - or localism vs. centralisation.

The vast majority of our laws are made in Britain and will continue to be made in Britain if we continue to be part of the EU. It is inconceivable that the kind of radical shift in powers that would be required to change that would be go through without further consultation with the British people.

As for localism vs centralism this vote won't change much about that either way: the fact is that globalisation means that a lot of what happens in our country is determined beyond our borders. Being part of Europe gives us a much stronger voice in determining how those factors go. Healthy co-operation with other nations gives Britain the best chance of a strong future.

 

[ReltonBFD]

This is just paranoid nonsense.



The vast majority of our laws are made in Britain and will continue to be made in Britain if we continue to be part of the EU. It is inconceivable that the kind of radical shift in powers that would be required to change that would be go through without further consultation with the British people.

As for localism vs centralism this vote won't change much about that either way: the fact is that globalisation means that a lot of what happens in our country is determined beyond our borders. Being part of Europe gives us a much stronger voice in determining how those factors go. Healthy co-operation with other nations gives Britain the best chance of a strong future.

Why does Business for Britain put legislation and law change at 60+% then that's as early as last year. Compare that to the 7 odd % Clegg stated.

I know who I believe

 

[Mr Jack]

Why does Business for Britain put legislation and law change at 60+% then that's as early as last year. Compare that to the 7 odd % Clegg stated.

I know who I believe

Both figures compare apples to oranges. The 60%+ figure and the 70%+ figure that Farage likes to quote are an absolute case in point, they count up every EU regulation and quote that as a percentage of EU regulations + UK acts of parliament. This is clearly absurd since EU regulations are typically tiny, unimportant things. The last time we were discussing this figure I looked up the three of the most recent EU regulations at random. They (1) assigned a code to a particular kind of widescreen monitor for import purposes, (2) added a place in Italy that makes cheese into the list of geographically protected product names and the third one I forget but it was similar banal. To count those as equal to, say, the Health and Social Care Act 2012 or the act that upped tuition fees to £9k cannot be a sensible way to measure the relative impact of these parliaments.

It is probably impossible to define a single percentage that accurately describes the impact of EU on UK law but it's certainly the case that on all the big issues of the day the UK has the majority of the power.

 

[arknor]

How do you explain that Sweden, a country in which localism is applied with great success, has no problems with the EU?

I heard if we left the EU trade tariffs would be around %2-4 but since we import more than we export we would actually gain money by leaving the EU?
We would also be free to trade with china etc?

in the long run the EU wants all countries to be the same but you can't do that without making the successful countries worse off and why should they subsidise others at their own expense.

It's not like we need to band together for protection all this scenario does is force china etc to do the same and in a sense creates an us vs them situation in some form of economical war?

Just seems like the EU is trying to lul everyone in Europe into depending on them until a point comes that you have no power and must tow the line

 

[Mr Jack]

in the long run the EU wants all countries to be the same but you can't do that without making the successful countries worse off and why should they subsidise others at their own expense.

The world is not a zero sum problem.

 

[ReltonBFD]

Both figures compare apples to oranges. The 60%+ figure and the 70%+ figure that Farage likes to quote are an absolute case in point, they count up every EU regulation and quote that as a percentage of EU regulations + UK acts of parliament. This is clearly absurd since EU regulations are typically tiny, unimportant things. The last time we were discussing this figure I looked up the three of the most recent EU regulations at random. They (1) assigned a code to a particular kind of widescreen monitor for import purposes, (2) added a place in Italy that makes cheese into the list of geographically protected product names and the third one I forget but it was similar banal. To count those as equal to, say, the Health and Social Care Act 2012 or the act that upped tuition fees to £9k cannot be a sensible way to measure the relative impact of these parliaments.

It is probably impossible to define a single percentage that accurately describes the impact of EU on UK law but it's certainly the case that on all the big issues of the day the UK has the majority of the power.

Okay then why are tiny little unimportant changes any different, it doesn't take a math genius to work out a lot of small numbers eventually add up to a big number. It's encroaching and I don't like it.

You can spin what you want about it, but at the end of the day I don't want to be part of a European project I'm British, English and I want US to have full powers over what we do.

No matter how you much you try to say the European union is democratic it simply isn't.

Also can I just say heard an interesting call on LBC, can't remember his name, but he stated that by voting yes, we are practically signing away the pound and welcoming the euro, I won't be surprised if we are using it within 15 years.

 

[( |-| |2 ][ $]

I'd like to be able to vote Yes stay.
But that depends on reforms that enable us to have some control out borders, ie enforce a points based system.

 

[Mr Jack]

Okay then why are tiny little unimportant changes any different, it doesn't take a math genius to work out a lot of small numbers eventually add up to a big number. It's encroaching and I don't like it.

They're very different if you're trying to make up a 60%+ number as if the EU makes most of UK law when, in fact, it's not even close to that. Yes, the EU has significant influence in its areas. But it remains the case that the vast
majority of EU influence is down to having a common market.

You can spin what you want about it, but at the end of the day I don't want to be part of a European project I'm British, English and I want US to have full powers over what we do.

I totally misread your capitalised US as 'United States' and utterly changed the meaning of that

No matter how you much you try to say the European union is democratic it simply isn't.

No, it isn't. It isn't because it's not a federal Europe and the reason that stop it being democratic is because its accountable to our elected governments who don't want to cede power to the European parliament. But leave the EU and all that happens is that the same decisions will still influence us but we'll have no say in them at all. I don't see that as a big win for democracy.

The biggest threat to democracy isn't the EU; it's the power of global corporations and to stand up to that we will need allies.

Also can I just say heard an interesting call on LBC, can't remember his name, but he stated that by voting yes, we are practically signing away the pound and welcoming the euro, I won't be surprised if we are using it within 15 years.

There is no obligation on us to join the Euro. Ever. And after the current mess there's no realistic prospect of us doing so without far reaching reform out of how the Euro works.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'd like to be able to vote Yes stay.
But that depends on reforms that enable us to have some control out borders, ie enforce a points based system.

Won't happen. The irony is, of course, that there's a decent chance that free movement in Europe will continue even if you vote No. Britain needs access to the EU markets and the price of that is free movement.

 

[scorza]

How do you explain that Sweden, a country in which localism is applied with great success, has no problems with the EU?

Well that's a question for the Swedish people, as I'm not Swedish I don't really have an opinion about Sweden's place in the world or its relationship with the EU.

This is just paranoid nonsense.

And when the last referendum was held to suggest that Britain would have to pay more money to the EU because of our booming prostitution industry would have been dismissed as paranoid nonsense as well. But this is the EU, so the ridiculous is entirely likely.

The vast majority of our laws are made in Britain and will continue to be made in Britain if we continue to be part of the EU. It is inconceivable that the kind of radical shift in powers that would be required to change that would be go through without further consultation with the British people.

As for localism vs centralism this vote won't change much about that either way: the fact is that globalisation means that a lot of what happens in our country is determined beyond our borders. Being part of Europe gives us a much stronger voice in determining how those factors go. Healthy co-operation with other nations gives Britain the best chance of a strong future.

We aren't allowed a voice to determine these factors though, we just have to trust that the EU will look out for us. Something tells me that when the EU goes into trade negotiations with say China, British exports aren't exactly top of the agenda compared to German luxury cars or French wines.

 

[Mr Jack]

And when the last referendum was held to suggest that Britain would have to pay more money to the EU because of our booming prostitution industry would have been dismissed as paranoid nonsense as well. But this is the EU, so the ridiculous is entirely likely.

That a payment based on GDP would be updated with updated methods of GDP measurement adopted across the EU was both entirely predictable and entirely reasonable.

We aren't allowed a voice to determine these factors though, we just have to trust that the EU will look out for us. Something tells me that when the EU goes into trade negotiations with say China, British exports aren't exactly top of the agenda compared to German luxury cars or French wines.

We have a voice in these matters through both our elected government and through our elected representatives in the European Parliament. Our relative effectiveness is down, mostly, to the ability of our leaders to conduct competent diplomacy. Cameron is the absolute case in point of what happens when you have an inept negotiator in charge; his utter inability to get what he wants from the EU is entirely down to stupid decisions on his part. However, there's not a lot of reason to think that any leader of ours who is inept in Europe is going to be any better dealing directly on the international stage.

 

[dannyjo22]

Most people are sheep, and will do what the papers tell them to do.

Totally agree because I don't believe in the main any of us really have a full idea of how this vote will impact us other than the keep the pound and ingerland free of Brussels.

Myself I don't think I will vote because I don't think even by the referendum I will have enough of an idea of how this will impact me on a deep enough level to really make a decision. But that is why I have elected a government to make these decisions for me in the much the same way other important decisions are taken with out asking me either. Working for such a european company I'm also most interested to hear from our leaders in the workplace on how being in or out will effect us.

Either way I think this will finish off Cameron, which is why he already said he won't go for another term, like it will be his idea. He either won't get a good enough reform, so will be seen as weak or will get a reform he can get behind and will still lose a vote to the sun readership.

 

[scorza]

We have a voice in these matters through both our elected government and through our elected representatives in the European Parliament. ...

We have a voice do we? lol

Disgraceful scenes - makes our parliament look more than competent.

 

[joeyjojo]

We have a voice do we? lol

Disgraceful scenes - makes our parliament look more than competent.

Yes we do! You've shared a clip around an issue that demonstrates probably better than any other how powerful citizens are when they lobby MEPs directly. This is the result of years of hard work by activist groups.

P.S. finally an easy summary of some of the main dangers of TTIP: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33055665

 

[scorza]

Yes we do! You've shared a clip around an issue that demonstrates probably better than any other how powerful citizens are when they lobby MEPs directly. This is the result of years of hard work by activist groups.

P.S. finally an easy summary of some of the main dangers of TTIP: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33055665

That's not what the video shows - it shows the European Parliament ignoring their own procedures to stifle debate, and even turning off the microphones of dissenters.

Link to explain it: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-after-ukip-meps-spark-protest-10310457.html

 

[estebanrey]

 

[Freefaller]

The only thing that makes me nervous about the referendum is that if Greece does something stupid before the vote for example, people will suddenly panic vote and will ruin everything.