Eurosport HD - Ghosting/Glitching on KS7000

jonessa

jonessa

jonessa

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Having taken delivery of a Samsung 49KS7000 yesterday, I was excited to watch the first round of the World Superbikes.

Unfortunately, the experience was marred by some ghosting/glitching during the race. This was usually close the the rear tyre of the bikes or the riders themselves. I messed with a number of settings, but it was still there.

However, i've also watched the Rugby today on ITV HD, and also watched "The Fourth Phase" - a fast moving Snowboarding film by Travis Rice and couldn't replicate the issue.

Is it just because Eurosport's HD signal is a bit gash or should I be worried it's an issue with the panel?
 
Can the cameras they use catch motion perfectly like tennis balls? and how do you know what is poor, the cameras, the broadcast... Gaming I don't see blur unless developers inject motion blur. Sky I can sometimes see blur, not always. Some motion its juddery with fast paced balls of squash or tennis. No blur or smear with footballs. Golf balls can sometimes judder on the greens.

Yet Fifa games the balls don't do this...
 
Vertigo1 said:
Where's the signal coming from is the main question. Sky/Virgin? NowTV? Streaming?
Click to expand...

It's from Virgin TIVO.

V F said:
Can the cameras they use catch motion perfectly like tennis balls? and how do you know what is poor, the cameras, the broadcast... Gaming I don't see blur unless developers inject motion blur. Sky I can sometimes see blur, not always. Some motion its juddery with fast paced balls of squash or tennis. No blur or smear with footballs. Golf balls can sometimes judder on the greens.

Yet Fifa games the balls don't do this...
Click to expand...

I wouldn't describe it as blur, its more like a ghosting effect which normally happens when the camera pans quickly. I've now realised it's a whole screen issue when it occurs - it's noticeable on the timing display on the left of the screen as well as on the bikes themselves. The screen momentarily ghosts to another position, as if it isn't able to keep up with the action as the camera moves. I'll try and capture an image.
 
Not sure if it helps but setting wise to remove all ghosting for me on the 55", Under Auto motion plus I use Custom, then set Blur Reduction to 10, Judder Reduction to 0 and LED clear motion to off. Find that setting works perfect for me in most cases.

IMO takes abit of tweaking with the panel and settings to get it how you want, but looks phenomenal once set up.
 
Probably the tv settings as they suggest - you can fine tune them on a recorded excerpt or download some motion tests;

otherwise, were both ITV and Europsport HD from Virgin ?;
for box compatability virgin streams are using older MPEG2 and not newer h264 that freeview/satellite uses for FHD,
this needs >2x bandwidth for same PQ ... but Virgin seem to skimp, their Eurosport HD 13Mb/s ,whereas Sky's 8.5Mbs/
 
Radox-0 said:
Not sure if it helps but setting wise to remove all ghosting for me on the 55", Under Auto motion plus I use Custom, then set Blur Reduction to 10, Judder Reduction to 0 and LED clear motion to off. Find that setting works perfect for me in most cases.

IMO takes abit of tweaking with the panel and settings to get it how you want, but looks phenomenal once set up.
Click to expand...

I've tried these settings and it's still there. I know what you mean about tweaking the panel - i haven't been able to replicate the image quality I saw on the demo machine, even with 4K content - the depth perception isn't nearly as good. I haven't attempted to update the firmware yet - if this is outdated, might it remedy the issue?

jpaul said:
Probably the tv settings as they suggest - you can fine tune them on a recorded excerpt or download some motion tests;

otherwise, were both ITV and Europsport HD from Virgin ?;
for box compatability virgin streams are using older MPEG2 and not newer h264 that freeview/satellite uses for FHD,
this needs >2x bandwidth for same PQ ... but Virgin seem to skimp, their Eurosport HD 13Mb/s ,whereas Sky's 8.5Mbs/
Click to expand...

Yes, both through Virgin - I will add, my experiences with the WSB was on a recording whereas I watched the Rugby live. Is it possible an issue with the recording quality on the TIVO box?

Thanks for all the advice so far.
 
Done some more testing.

I've recorded the issue here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSTJd5aZzc4

Most noticeable is towards the end of the clip where it really glitches.

Vertigo1 said:
Sounds like the TV's motion processing - can you turn it all off to test?
Click to expand...

Radox-0 said:
Not sure if it helps but setting wise to remove all ghosting for me on the 55", Under Auto motion plus I use Custom, then set Blur Reduction to 10, Judder Reduction to 0 and LED clear motion to off. Find that setting works perfect for me in most cases.

IMO takes abit of tweaking with the panel and settings to get it how you want, but looks phenomenal once set up.
Click to expand...


Now, explain this - if I turn Blur reduction completely off, the ghosting stops, but obviously the clarity of the picture isn't as good.

If I switch the panel into "Game mode". the problem disappears but the picture looks awful.


I'm looking to conclude that this is just a situation where there is so much fast blur on the screen at one point that the processing can't handle it and results in the glitch.

Thoughts?
 
jonessa said:
.


Now, explain this - if I turn Blur reduction completely off, the ghosting stops, but obviously the clarity of the picture isn't as good.
Click to expand...


Sounds like its interpolating frames. Interpolation algorithms are bound to give artifacts. Should turn off all image processing. Its just nonsense buzzword feature crap which TV manufacturers love including so they can have a bit of exclusivity.
 
what are you outputing from the tivo 1080i/1080p/4k ? is that contributing to the problem ?

Looking at the utube the superbike onscreen graphics are being shifted massivley and blurred with the background (or is utube playing up) - never seen anything like that before ... I would almost say tv fault
 
jpaul said:
what are you outputing from the tivo 1080i/1080p/4k ? is that contributing to the problem ?

Looking at the utube the superbike onscreen graphics are being shifted massivley and blurred with the background (or is utube playing up) - never seen anything like that before ... I would almost say tv fault
Click to expand...

Outputting 1080i from the TIVO box. Goes away when processing turned off. You also get artifacts on the riders and the wheels.
 
Last edited:
fascinating thread about motion processing here on avs
with some comments on ks series settings, and some other models - below comment interesting

If turning motion processing off of a decent video stream (high quality OTA or BD source) results in flickering series of images, then your hardware just isn't up to the task you're asking. My OTA sources are 12 Mbps streams. BD is almost always higher. 4K is way higher. If you're watching a streaming service video, expect no more more than 7 Mbps for video (highest I've personally seen) no matter what the resolution you think you're getting. That huge cut in video is not only due to compression, but actually dropping frames. You won't notice the 60% reduction in stream size if they only send 20 fps vs 60fps, will you?
Click to expand...
 
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