EV excise tax

Prototype321

Prototype321

Prototype321

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Joined
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Location
North Lincolnshire
There is a proposal to start charging 6p per mile tax to EV drivers. They introduced something similar in Victoria, Australia which caused a lot of backlash. The argument for is if everyone switches to EVs there will be a big budget blow-out left from people not paying tax on fuel, but the counter argument is that electricity already costs a lot and this may put more people off switching to EV. But with the 2030 deadline looming they are keen to have something in place by then.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/06/01/electric-car-drivers-should-pay-6p-per-mile-charge/
 
It's inevitable really, but 6p/mile seems very high, that would see many people paying more than they would in a "luxury" ICE over the £40k cutoff
 
All cost savings have been bait to get manufacturers and buyers going.

The government wants that money back and there will be fun and games as they scheme over how to farm special tax revenue from vehicles which run on electricity from a plug socket that everything else also runs on.

MoT records your distance once a year, that's not regular enough. Compulsory GPS tracking with your name on it will be abused for other purposes 0.5s after it goes live. These smart meters being foisted on everyone seem good enough to phone home with energy usage and could be checked up on at service/MoT time, maybe a variant of that without having to obnoxiously location track the vehicle.
 
My man maths says 6p puts the duty at the same as a 40mpg petrol car pays now, although we also pay VAT on that duty so it's actually a little better.
 
Dyson said:
Sounds fair enough, but I'm sure many will froth.
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How is it in any way ‘fair’? The justification for the frankly obscene levels of duty on petrol/diesel was that it was to discourage/compensate for the use of environmentally damaging fossil fuels. As everyone is so keen to tell us, electric vehicles run on an unlimited supply of magic fairy dust and have no environmental impact at all (/s), so how is it ‘fair’ to keep levying the same level of duties on such eco-friendly modern wonders?

Whilst I can see the economic need for the treasury to plug the impending hole in their budget it just goes to prove that they’ve been using motorists as a cash cow and maybe they should try looking elsewhere.
 
kaiowas said:
How is it in any way ‘fair’? The justification for the frankly obscene levels of duty on petrol/diesel was that it was to discourage/compensate for the use of environmentally damaging fossil fuels. As everyone is so keen to tell us, electric vehicles run on an unlimited supply of magic fairy dust and have no environmental impact at all (/s), so how is it ‘fair’ to keep levying the same level of duties on such eco-friendly modern wonders?

Whilst I can see the economic need for the treasury to plug the impending hole in their budget it just goes to prove that they’ve been using motorists as a cash cow and maybe they should try looking elsewhere.
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Fair doesn't come in to it. The gov will want the money, and more. Cash cow is the right term.
 
This idea gets put out there a lot but I’m not entirely clear why governments are obsessed with pursuing it.

I get the fairness angle if you do need to raise a chunk of change from motorists.

However, a flat rate charge on all vehicles without doubt would be orders of magnitude cheaper to implement and raise far more money for the same tax burden.

When I say flat rate, there is no reason that the charge couldn’t vary by vehicle based on its size, cost and efficiency. E.g. a fiesta is £500 and a Range Rover is £3k. Pay it via monthly direct debit via the infrastructure that already exists via VED.

P.S. not all current fuel duty comes from car drivers so don’t fall into the trap in thinking that the current fuel duty takings all need to come from passenger cars.

Also they need to remove the absence notion that fuel duty doesn’t apply to aviation fuel (pretty sure it’s an international treaty we are a part of). I’m sorry if that makes your holiday more expensive, it doesn’t make it any less a terrible policy.

Edit: If current trajectory is maintained, there will be few (if any) cars actually below £40k by the time 2035 rolls round anyway.
 
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Haggisman said:
It's inevitable really, but 6p/mile seems very high, that would see many people paying more than they would in a "luxury" ICE over the £40k cutoff
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It would need to cover VED and fuel duty, plus VAT at 20% for the government to receive the same income level. I think something does need to be done to replace the income. The problem with EVs is, 6p/mile isn't going to discourage short trips...


Thinking massively out of the box a bit, I wonder if there is a opportunity to have a set price for tax with included charging from public chargers? A lot like that Tesla offer a few years back, but more sustainable business plan. You're still free to charge at home, but it will be at your expense.
 
I think a tax per mile will be inevitable and also I do think its fair: Granny doing a few K miles a year shopping should pay less than the sales rep knocking up 40K a year. Granny does less wear and tear on the roads.

I know the MOT isn't regular enough, but what if you just paid monthly based on an estimate of mileage and then the MOT was used as a check that you're not fiddling it. A bit like paying for gas/electric where the meter readings are estimated and read only one or twice a year.
 
peterwalkley said:
I think a tax per mile will be inevitable and also I do think its fair: Granny doing a few K miles a year shopping should pay less than the sales rep knocking up 40K a year. Granny does less wear and tear on the roads.

I know the MOT isn't regular enough, but what if you just paid monthly based on an estimate of mileage and then the MOT was used as a check that you're not fiddling it. A bit like paying for gas/electric where the meter readings are estimated and read only one or twice a year.
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Buy a car just after it’s MoT, sell it just before the next one. Who gets the bill when your ‘estimate’ is way off but no-one can prove who drove the miles?
 
Be interesting to see how they would plan to implement the GPS - are they going to provide everyone with a black box to plug in, with traffic officers doing spot checks and a fine if you're caught driving without one? Or force manufacturers to fit a device to all cars - in which case what about older cars without this device? A flat rate meaning they are more attractive to higher mileage drivers?

Trifid said:
It would need to cover VED and fuel duty, plus VAT at 20% for the government to receive the same income level. I think something does need to be done to replace the income. The problem with EVs is, 6p/mile isn't going to discourage short trips...
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Yeah, fair point - I was thinking in terms of purely VED. Not sure why the need to discourage short trips - its exactly what they are suited for, unlike an ICE which takes a while to get up to temperature, and so will be running very inefficiently (and so polluting quite a bit more than "average" for those couple of miles.)

Trifid said:
Thinking massively out of the box a bit, I wonder if there is a opportunity to have a set price for tax with included charging from public chargers? A lot like that Tesla offer a few years back, but more sustainable business plan. You're still free to charge at home, but it will be at your expense.
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That would disproportionately affect those doing higher mileage (or with no driveway/off street parking) and having no choice but to use public charging. E.g. in 2 years of EV ownership, I've used public chargers a total of 9 times

Penfold101 said:
Buy a car just after it’s MoT, sell it just before the next one. Who gets the bill when your ‘estimate’ is way off but no-one can prove who drove the miles?
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Unless you're doing mega miles, the money you'd lose buying and selling (not to mention the effort involved) would hardly be worth it :p
 
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Haggisman said:
That would disproportionately affect those doing higher mileage (or with no driveway/off street parking) and having no choice but to use public charging. E.g. in 2 years of EV ownership, I've used public chargers a total of 9 times
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It would, but high mileage should be discouraged too. It also balances the experience for those who do not have driveways and have no choice but to pay for very expensive public charging all the time.
 
Trifid said:
It would, but high mileage should be discouraged too. It also balances the experience for those who do not have driveways and have no choice but to pay for very expensive public charging all the time.
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Are those in that position actually going to buy an EV though? What’s the incentive?
 
robj20 said:
Of course you will have a choice.
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Well sure, if you want to import one, or keep running an older ICE (assuming your employer allows it - I'd guess most people doing significant mileage will be doing so for work), or go hydrogen
 
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