EV excise tax

200sols said:
My man maths says 6p puts the duty at the same as a 40mpg petrol car pays now, although we also pay VAT on that duty so it's actually a little better.
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Yeah 6P a mile is insane high, thing is most modern petrol cars do better than 40mpg, and if their ban wasn't inimint this would only improve.
Uther said:
Fair doesn't come in to it. The gov will want the money, and more. Cash cow is the right term.
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Of course it doesn't, tax is used for other things, someone should do a matrix of the excise collected and money spent on roads to highlight how much they "need" for the intended purpose.
Trifid said:
Thinking massively out of the box a bit, I wonder if there is a opportunity to have a set price for tax with included charging from public chargers? A lot like that Tesla offer a few years back, but more sustainable business plan. You're still free to charge at home, but it will be at your eexpense.
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A lot of these are already massively overpriced as it is, more people will just install home chargers.
Haggisman said:
The fact that in 12 years they'll have no choice :p
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Isn't it more like 6 and a half years?
Penfold101 said:
Used ICE cars will be around for decades to come. I wonder what the percentage of houses built without parking or a driveway is these days…
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Yes but he was referring to the policy makers, they won't buy a used car to get around it.
 
The problem i see with this 6p per mile charge is it doesn't matter if you drive a tiny low power light weight car like a EV fiat 500 or a huge heavy EV 4x4 or some super highend EV sports car it going to cost the same which really isn't right
 
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chaparral said:
The problem i see with this 6p per mile charge is it doesn't matter if you drive a tiny low power light weight car like a EV fiat 500 or a huge heavy 4x4 or some super highend sports car it going to cost the same which really isn't right
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The larger car will require more electricity which is taxed.
 
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Firestar_3x said:
The larger car will require more electricity which is taxed.
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A rich person charges there super car/Huge 4x4 on there driveway at super cheap rates while a poor person with a tiny electric car will have to pay public charger prices :(

In the end it be the poorer people with small cars that will end up paying the most
 
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chaparral said:
A rich person charges there super car/Huge 4x4 on there driveway at super cheap rates while a poor person with a tiny electric car will have to pay public charger prices :(

In the end it be the poorer people with small cars that will end up paying the most
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Poor people won’t be buying electric cars for at least 15 years, if not 20.

If they can afford a current electric car, or a brand new one when they’re mandatory in 2030, then they aren’t poor.

When the last ICE vehicles come to the end of their useful lives in around 2050, THEN the poor people we have to drive electric cars.
 
Penfold101 said:
Poor people won’t be buying electric cars for at least 15 years, if not 20.

If they can afford a current electric car, or a brand new one when they’re mandatory in 2030, then they aren’t poor.

When the last ICE vehicles come to the end of their useful lives in around 2050, THEN the poor people we have to drive electric cars.
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Are you trying to say poor people only drive cars from 2003...
 
Prototype321 said:
Are you trying to say poor people only drive cars from 2003...
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I'm saying that if you're actually poor, you aren't driving around in a current EV and nor are you going to be buying a new car any time soon. If you have car that is less than (pulling arbitary figure out of my ass) 10 years old, you probably aren't poor. If you ARE poor and drive a new car, your priorities are severally messed up.

It's the same as being poor but complaining that Rolex watches are too expensive to buy - live within your means.
 
Penfold101 said:
Are those in that position actually going to buy an EV though? What’s the incentive?
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I expect the penalties for driving ICE cars will increase if people don't switch voluntarily. The writing is on the wall with ULEZ, pollution charging, emissions based parking charges.

Prototype321 said:
A lot of these are already massively overpriced as it is, more people will just install home chargers.
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It's a big inequality for those who can't.
 
Penfold101 said:
Poor people won’t be buying electric cars for at least 15 years, if not 20.

If they can afford a current electric car, or a brand new one when they’re mandatory in 2030, then they aren’t poor.

When the last ICE vehicles come to the end of their useful lives in around 2050, THEN the poor people we have to drive electric cars.
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Maybe saying poor people was totally the wrong wording,
As i mean the people that can't afford to buy their own house with a driveway or garage

People like myself that can only afford to rent a place with only on street parking or people that a flat or house with no driveway or garage
 
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Prototype321 said:
Yeah 6P a mile is insane high, thing is most modern petrol cars do better than 40mpg, and if their ban wasn't inimint this would only improve.
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Pretty much all the powertrain efficiency improvements in recent decades have been completely undone by the fashion for unnecessarily gigantic cars with the cross section of a shed.

Continuing the VED based on efficiency(by proxy of emissions atm) figures would be a sensible start.

Ultimately there's nearly £30,000,000,000 every year coming from fuel duties and that hole in the budget needs to come from somewhere.

I won't be buying an electric car until public charging infrastructure is completely overhauled (no off street parking), no sign of that happening under this useless shower in government, but with any luck they'll be gone next year and we might get some progress on important things.
 
kaiowas said:
How is it in any way ‘fair’? The justification for the frankly obscene levels of duty on petrol/diesel was that it was to discourage/compensate for the use of environmentally damaging fossil fuels. As everyone is so keen to tell us, electric vehicles run on an unlimited supply of magic fairy dust and have no environmental impact at all (/s), so how is it ‘fair’ to keep levying the same level of duties on such eco-friendly modern wonders?

Whilst I can see the economic need for the treasury to plug the impending hole in their budget it just goes to prove that they’ve been using motorists as a cash cow and maybe they should try looking elsewhere.
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I don't disagree, but it could be argued that it's fairer to lump it all into fuel duty/VED etc than to lump it all into general taxation such as PAYE income tax. That way it would mean those that don't pay tax (for whatever reasons) would still have to pay tax via other means.

Unfortunately it's an argument that can be applied to pretty much anything. Taxation is never truly fair. In an ideal world people would be taxed equally on whatever services they use and however they earn money.
 
chaparral said:
Maybe saying poor people was totally the wrong wording,
As i mean the people that can't afford to buy their own house with a driveway or garage

People like myself that can only afford to rent a place with only on street parking or people that a flat or house with no driveway or garage
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Ahh, you mean peasant - not poor... :D

I totally agree mate, the number of people that live in flats or without a driveway must be huge, and it doesn't even mean they're poor either - just look at London and the price of apartments or flats there.

This part of electric cars is something that will have to be sorted but I admit I've no idea how - wireless charging under the tarmac maybe...? You can't have people forced to spend a fortune on public chargers or have cables running down from from upstairs windows like something out of the matrix...
 
Terrible Idea.

They need to fix the costs per kw at these chargers first.

Some are over 90p! Use a Tesla as an example of 300w per mile at the most, that's 30p per mile....
 
Diagro said:
Terrible Idea.

They need to fix the costs per kw at these chargers first.

Some are over 90p! Use a Tesla as an example of 300w per mile at the most, that's 30p per mile....
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Why would a Tesla use those though, they would just use cheap Superchargers. Hell, Tesla only charge for leccy added too.
 
Uther said:
I assume they'll have to do something about people with solar though.
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I suspect this is the worry, dropping fuel tax income is going to spiral quickly with EV adoption and moving to tax electricity will push everyone to generating their own so have to tax per mile instead.
 
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Minstadave said:
I suspect this is the worry, dropping fuel tax income is going to spiral quickly with EV adoption and moving to tax electricity will push everyone to generating their own so have to tax per mile instead.
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Or just hype up VED which seems to be the current plan. The £40k threshold has been the £40k threshold since it’s introduction and has been subject to a huge amount of fiscal drag.

It’s no longer a luxury car tax, it’s now the expensive car supplement. At the rate car prices are going up, it won’t belong before it’s just a <5 year old car supplement.
 
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Also, how they going to tell how many miles you do?
At MOT which will soon be every 2 years?

That will be a Massive bill each 24 months for some.
Not to mention the first 3 years... how they going to tell?
Get big brother trackers installed in all new EVs? Yea good luck with that passing.
 
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