I was all for a phev when I changed to EV. Inly they were over priced when I went looking. So didn't get one.
After having a BEV for a while I next time I'd go BEV again or non hybrid Petrol. I'm either all in, or all out.
EV general discussion
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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After having a BEV for a while I next time I'd go BEV again or non hybrid Petrol. I'm either all in, or all out.
Diddums - I should probably ask the mods to change it back.
Well the whole point was to start a discussion, and if I step over all of the handbags that @Journey has flung all over the place then I think it was quite successful
lol
It's not the gospel truth though, and I've not claimed it is. I posted a video from a very well known and knowledgeable motoring journalist as I found it interesting and I agree with his conclusions. There are of course many sides to this story, hence the idea of a discussion, but like I said before, you either drink the EV Kool Aid or you stay out. It's been like this for years with the EV fans. I've been in to cars for as long as I can remember and I've never seen this level of hostility and insecurity surrounding people's car coices, it's quite bizarre.
I started off in London in 2006, and one element of my job was changing air handling unit filters. These are the massive filters that serve entire buildings. Back in those days I'd do an air handing unit and I'd need to pretty much be in a hazmat suit as I'd be covered from top to toe in horrible black stuff, the same stuff that would otherwise be in peoples' lungs. Let's not forget that this was the peak diesel era, when Ken Livinstone was still trying to defend his ridiculous bendy buses. If I were to change the same filters today, I'd have a dust mask on, some goggles and some gloves. And in many cases that'd be out of habit rather than necessity. There's absolutely no doubting the difference that not only EVs have made, but the general attitude towards pollution and green initiatives. It's absolutely immense and I hope it continues.
Going back to EVs for a moment, I am the literal embodiment of a perfect use case for an EV. 80 miles a day down the A3, £13 a day in fuel, a parking spot at work with free electricity. The problem I have is that a) that parking spot is likely to vanish in May and b) I don't have the option to home charge, so I'd be stuck with an EV that I'd have to charge at petrol stations which would rule out any financial benefit immediately.
I also have other reservations, like where the raw materials are going to continue coming from, the atrocitities carried out by 3rd world countries on their own people in order to sell us those materials, the disposal and recycling of those materials, depreciation and the undeniable insecurity in the car market in general. The whole EV thing was forced on us so quickly that we're only now starting to see whether things like battery degradation are genuine concerns (something I was musing about 7 years ago already) and whether this is actually the right course of action. Yes we're seeing massive improvements at the point of use but a lot of inconvenient truths need to be ignored to enjoy them.
It's certainly an interesting subject and one I'm thoroughly enjoying watch unfold. Car companies are literally being made and broken as a result of the decisions they're making with regard to EVs, if this was any other industry it'd be a Hollywood blockbuster.
Interesting stuff. Just don't tell @Journey though, he'll try sell you a used Leaf.
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We used to have the run the car to demist defrost and the fumes were not great. Glad not to have to do that now. Preheat and electric windscreen.
You deserve a 2013 used Leaf. Actually make that a 2011 one.
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I'm sure in EV talk that's quite some shade you're throwing, but as I don't speak EV, you should try something more common, like "I hope you grow taste buds in your arse hole"
You have no reservations where your fuel comes from, Saudi etc, where it's refined, the fact they can't refine it without cobalt? You are fine with the fact you cannot recycle petrol or diesel, yet almost 98% of a battery pack can as they are minerals. Battery degradation, ah yes that old chestnut, 8 years warranty on batteries, and cars kicking around with 200-400k miles on them with original packs installed.
Have to charge at a public charging station, man sucks to break the truth to you, let me just dig to the bottom of a handbag and find some facts, oh yeah 34ppkWh without a subscription at some chargers, oh you know use CoCharge, ZapHome or stop living in a tent and get a drive way? Did I do it right, the insult I meant?
You'll hafta point out where I said that, as I don't recall saying anything along those lines
Interesting. I'd like to see the fine print on this, like what the terms are on these warranties. At what point do the OEMs consider batteries to have failed their warranty, is it 60% of the stated mileage? 95%?
And what sort of mileage are these 400k mile battery packs providing?
If it could be conclusively proven that an EV will do the same miles as a petrol car without losing range or anything, then that's one reservation to rule out and I think the EV industry needs to use this in their marketing as it could go a long way to convince sceptics like me.
Never heard of CoCharge or Zaphome, will look in to them. Wouldn't it be amusing if after all your little stropping and fannywobbles that you are the one to end up convincing me to get an EV
Also, stick to the abrasive ***** persona, you can't insult for toffee.
Soldato
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Don't feed the troll 
Brought a model 3 dual motor for 21,000 , 20k milage 71 plate registered 20th of december 2021. Collecting it tomorrow, octopus are taking an age to fit my charger (been a week and a few days)
My previous cars are:
2005 audi a4 cabriolet
2008 jaguar XF SVR 4.2 supercharged.
(partly shared my GF's Yaris 2024 after i sold my cars over a year ago)
Both excited and anxious at the same time.
My previous cars are:
2005 audi a4 cabriolet
2008 jaguar XF SVR 4.2 supercharged.
(partly shared my GF's Yaris 2024 after i sold my cars over a year ago)
Both excited and anxious at the same time.
Soldato
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- 3,793
Sat in a EV for the first time today and it was surprisingly good although it was only a Renault Zoe.
I would think that the problems with high end EVs and the fact that Porsche and others are scaling back their EV plans in this area is very relevant to one poster in this thread. After all, he works for a high end luxury car maker that has pinned its entire future hopes on EV only being a success.
Depends on the car, most are 70% at year 8 with 100k to 120k milage limits. Tesla S and X had unlimited mileage warranties for 8 years.
Don’t forget, it’s a warranty, there will be a huge safety margin built in. Even replacing a very small single digit % under warranty would wipe out profit on the vehicle.
How many ICE cars come with 8 year 100k+ warranties on their drivetrains? None. That’s the level of confidence they have in the reliability of their cars.
Here is some Tesla’s:
Electric Car Battery Degradation: Trends, Battery Life, Replacement Cost & More - Charged Future
Electric car battery degradation occurs about 1-2% per year. However, there are several factors at play: TMS, DCFC frequency, hot climate, and more.
www.chargedfuture.com
Want something in video format? Here is an abused Model S on 190k with the original battery:
Sure an engine will go 190k if looked after. However, can you really call it ‘original’ after ~19 oil changes and several thousand £ in parts it would likely need to keep it going for that long. Triggers broom is the relevant term.
This paper was published recently: https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2...teries-may-last-up-to-40-longer-than-expected
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41560-024-01675-8
There is shed loads on information out there if you actually look, most of it shows that the battery will outlast the typical lifetime of the car.
Edit: pretty sure this is the 400k Tesla report: https://cleantechnica.com/2024/07/14/another-tesla-with-over-400000-miles-on-one-battery/amp/
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Interesting. I'd like to see the fine print on this, like what the terms are on these warranties. At what point do the OEMs consider batteries to have failed their warranty, is it 60% of the stated mileage? 95%?
And what sort of mileage are these 400k mile battery packs providing?
If it could be conclusively proven that an EV will do the same miles as a petrol car without losing range or anything, then that's one reservation to rule out and I think the EV industry needs to use this in their marketing as it could go a long way to convince sceptics like me.
Never heard of CoCharge or Zaphome, will look in to them. Wouldn't it be amusing if after all your little stropping and fannywobbles that you are the one to end up convincing me to get an EV
Also, stick to the abrasive ***** persona, you can't insult for toffee.
If you want a car that's exactly like a petrol car, then just buy a petrol car.
You have to be open minded to doing things differently and want to try it, to switch to an EV successfully.
If you don't want to, then don't. Buy the petrol.
The range degradation thing is quite frustrating actually - I had a nose at a few EVs a dealer I use regularly had selling (got a load back off lease from the same customer) and it was all over the place with no real rhyme or reason in respect to age or mileage with some having a fair hit to range and others basically still showing same range as new. Like many dealers and garages they aren't upfront with the battery health and often obscure it, especially if it is bad, in the pictures online.
Soldato
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I like both.
Soldato
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I prefer my Sega but like Mario too…
Petrol and diesel is 100% recycled so not sure where you going with that one. No one can recycle batteries at scale yet. And SoH drop happens relatively quick 5% battery loss is still 5% range reduction.
Not much Saudi oil makes it to the uk either. Have you heard of the North Sea ?
34p/kwh is on parity with Petrol and they are hardly dotted all over the country. How’s a 34p charger going to help if you are 100miles away
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You could tell this just by looking at them?
Soldato
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How do you even get accurate information on this? From my research you can't trust what the car says as they base the range on a number of factors, you would need to drive it for some time. The weather also impacts it. Battery checks and tests have an error margin of +- 10% in the small print of ones I have seen so they are only somewhat useful. There are some stats for % on AC / DC which helps understand maybe how it has been used.