Extending from master socket

miikeeyy92 · 19 Apr 2018 at 22:48

Evening all,

I'd like my router downstairs, but the master socket is upstairs, and I'm not really in a position to have it moved by BT.

Is it possible to have a long RJ45 (?) cable between the master socket and my router without much performance reduction? Ive read on the internet about using a CAT5 cable with RJ45 connections?

Thanks.

Delta3D · 19 Apr 2018 at 22:57

I'd probably say Cat 5e ethernet is a better option as it supports faster speeds but also has less interference. Worth it if it's going to be there a long time.

With 5e this should be fine and you likely wont notice any difference.

mrbazmondo · 19 Apr 2018 at 23:28

It makes more sense to keep the router next to the master socket, and run ethernet over the RJ45+cat5e to downstairs, and maybe put a switch at the other end if you have several devices.
ADSL gives a faster connection if you have less cabling (and therefore noise) between your router and the master socket. In my old house ADSL wouldn't work at all unless I completely disconnected the wiring leading to the other phone sockets around my house.

bremen1874 · 19 Apr 2018 at 23:31

Cat5e or CW1308 will work.

CW1308 is usually much thinner so can be easier to route.

Mr Plow · 19 Apr 2018 at 23:58

If you search youtube for My Mate VINCE he has a few videos that may help. I recently replaced our old BT master socket (located in the loft) with the new 5c version and the mk4 vdsl faceplate, I then ran cat5e cable down to the router in my bedroom and the guides on his channel came in handy.

miikeeyy92 · 20 Apr 2018 at 10:33

Delta3D said:
I'd probably say Cat 5e ethernet is a better option as it supports faster speeds but also has less interference. Worth it if it's going to be there a long time.

With 5e this should be fine and you likely wont notice any difference.

Thanks for the tip.

mrbazmondo said:
It makes more sense to keep the router next to the master socket, and run ethernet over the RJ45+cat5e to downstairs, and maybe put a switch at the other end if you have several devices.
ADSL gives a faster connection if you have less cabling (and therefore noise) between your router and the master socket. In my old house ADSL wouldn't work at all unless I completely disconnected the wiring leading to the other phone sockets around my house.

I would keep the router by the master socket if it wasn't in the middle of a skirting board, between two windows, upstairs at the front of the house! The WiFi isn't quite strong enough to get to the kitchen/garden without occasional dropouts.

bremen1874 said:
Cat5e or CW1308 will work.

CW1308 is usually much thinner so can be easier to route.

Thanks.

Mr Plow said:
If you search youtube for My Mate VINCE he has a few videos that may help. I recently replaced our old BT master socket (located in the loft) with the new 5c version and the mk4 vdsl faceplate, I then ran cat5e cable down to the router in my bedroom and the guides on his channel came in handy.

Thanks, I'll look this up.

I think I had my connections mixed up, the 'broadband cable' that comes with BT is actually RJ11 I think, as the smart hub wont accept an ethernet cable as the input. I assume rewiring a Cat5e or CW1308 cable into RJ11 connections will still work?

gord · 20 Apr 2018 at 10:44

mrbazmondo said:
It makes more sense to keep the router next to the master socket, and run ethernet over the RJ45+cat5e to downstairs, and maybe put a switch at the other end if you have several devices.
ADSL gives a faster connection if you have less cabling (and therefore noise) between your router and the master socket. In my old house ADSL wouldn't work at all unless I completely disconnected the wiring leading to the other phone sockets around my house.

As Mr Bazmondo says. What's your reason for wanting to move the router @miikeeyy92 ?

miikeeyy92 · 20 Apr 2018 at 10:57

gord said:
As Mr Bazmondo says. What's your reason for wanting to move the router @miikeeyy92 ?

The master socket is upstairs at the right of the house and not near any power outlets either, and so if I could have the router downstairs in the middle of the house, the WiFi in the kitchen/garden would be much improved (by a socket too). As a secondary bonus, my all my wired devices would be near the router too, but as previously mentioned, I can run cat5e with a switch.

gord · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:14

Ideally you still keep the copper to your cabinet as short as possible. So keep the router upstairs, disable the router wireless (I assume this is the best practice to avoid having multiple wireless networks), run a network cable to a switch/wireless access point downstairs.

miikeeyy92 · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:24

gord said:
Ideally you still keep the copper to your cabinet as short as possible. So keep the router upstairs, disable the router wireless (I assume this is the best practice to avoid having multiple wireless networks), run a network cable to a switch/wireless access point downstairs.

When you say copper, do you mean the cable between Master socktet and router?

bremen1874 · 20 Apr 2018 at 11:37

Done properly an extension from the master socket won’t make any significant difference to the connection. The added convenience will outweigh any small drop in sync.

The cable is cheap so you can test it before you perminantly route it.

Avalon · 20 Apr 2018 at 15:25

Ideally: Short RJ11 to modem/router in a convenient location, RJ45 to switch downstairs.

mrbazmondo · 20 Apr 2018 at 18:01

bremen1874 said:
Done properly an extension from the master socket won’t make any significant difference to the connection. The added convenience will outweigh any small drop in sync.

The cable is cheap so you can test it before you perminantly route it.

If you're a long way form the exchange, e.g 7km, then it makes a massive difference. Probably negligible if you're very close.

I'd pin the master-to-router cable to the call along or under the skirting and put the router in a corner next to a power socket. Then run a cat5e cable to a tp-link wifi extender near the kitchen/garden.

If running a cable is out of the question then get a powerline adaptor which will take a cable from the router to a plug socket next to the router, then put the other end in your kitchen where it will provide wifi.

bremen1874 · 20 Apr 2018 at 18:16

mrbazmondo said:
If you're a long way form the exchange, e.g 7km, then it makes a massive difference. Probably negligible if you're very close.

If you have 7km of cable already how can adding even adding 20 metres of what is effectively the same or better spec. onto the end of it make any noticeable difference?

Even on the shorter distances involved with VDSL you're aren't increasing the overall cable length by much.

If extension cabling of any reason length makes a significant difference it's either incorrectly wired or the wrong cable has been used.

mrbazmondo · 21 Apr 2018 at 12:21

bremen1874 said:
If you have 7km of cable already how can adding even adding 20 metres of what is effectively the same or better spec. onto the end of it make any noticeable difference?

Your welcome to buy my old house next time its on the market so you can prove your theory over my experience.
At 7km we couldn't get ADSL at all until they'ed started improving it to the point where everyone else could get 12Mbs, at which point we were able to get 0.25Mbs for the first time.

Caged · 21 Apr 2018 at 16:35

Adding 20m of quality twisted-pair cabling properly terminated as an extension is not going to affect your sync rate. Just use a filtered faceplate on your master and then take the extension off the unfiltered side.

If you have an old master socket with corroded contacts then yeah that might make a difference, but it's not the extra cable length doing that.

Avalon · 22 Apr 2018 at 09:02

Caged said:
Adding 20m of quality twisted-pair cabling properly terminated as an extension is not going to affect your sync rate. Just use a filtered faceplate on your master and then take the extension off the unfiltered side.

If you have an old master socket with corroded contacts then yeah that might make a difference, but it's not the extra cable length doing that.

So you’re suggesting the additional resistance caused when adding an extension won’t make any difference at all to anyone? C’mon, that’s just silly.

The difference may well be minimal, but to say it won’t make a difference to sync rate is something you can’t know. For example I used to employ a guy who lived a few miles outside a village, we had near perfect sync’s in the village, he couldn’t get 512k and was down to best effort with a disclaimer and was in effect told they would remove the service altogether rather than attend as a fault again, the difference going back to the test port made was significant and his extensions were properly terminated - he was a commercial electrician who’d done his networking/telecoms certs in a previous employment.

While I agree with the principal of doing it properly making little noticeable difference in the majority of cases, it’s certainly possible it will for some.

Caged · 22 Apr 2018 at 11:48

It won't make a difference any greater than the variation in speed that you see already when the connection resyncs. If there's a significant difference then I really doubt it's the fault of a few metres of extra cable - either the cable had a break somewhere, the termination was poor, the conductor quality was poor, it ran past a source of local interference etc.