External DAC to improve Android Phone with Tidal usage?

[Freakbro]

After a recent upgrade of my stero amp and speakers I've been back into music in a big way.

My main source of music is either CD or Tidal Premium with Master/MQA and Radio 6 via BBC Sounds app.

The amp is a Rega Elicit-R, so analog only inputs. So to give me the ability for BT streaming I purchased an ifi Zen Blue, which to be fair, works great. For convenience, streaming Radio 6 and for background listening it's perfect, but when sat down to "listen" to music for an evening I do think connecting the phone via wired (headphone jack to RCA phono) does give a better presentation. The BT just seems a little more "flat" whereas the wired just has a better depth of soundstage.

But, I do think the headphone jack on the phone is a little weak, you certainly have to crank the volume on the amp compared to BT or CD input and I'm wondering if I'm also hearing the limitations of the phone as a musical DAC source in general (when compared to CD use)

The phone is a Note 8, it's a few years old now and the battery is pretty shot, but I would have thought it's of a decent spec.

So I've been looking at wired external DACs and the questions I have, after the initial one of - will an external DAC improve the sound? are :-

Will the phone output via it's USB C and would that be better than the 3.5mm or make no difference?

I'm reading some info that makes it sound a bit patchy outputting audio via USB on Android phones and that they don't automatically work with all models of DAC?

Do I need an "OTG" cable for audio rather than a general USB cable?

On first look a couple of DACs look interesting :-

Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M

Pro :- RCA outputs/MQA native decoding

Con :- The USB input is B, so I would need a USB C to B cable (OTG?)

Chord Mojo

Seems a popular portable DAC, though I'm not really needing it's portability

Audiolab M-DAC+

Pro :- Lots of inputs

Con :- Expensive, only has a 6.3mm output

iFi Zen DAC

Pro :- USB 3 input, RCA output

Con :- Why did I buy the Zen blue....

 

[Freakbro]

I'd still have to convert the optical out as the amp only has RCA inputs?

I do have an Nvidia Shield, which is HDMI only, but that goes to the Denon AVR (pre-outs to the Rega to drive the fronts in HT) and I just want to put a direct source into the Rega for music

 

[Freakbro]

Thanks for the information and suggestions guys, especially @Nobski for that detailed post, that was exactly the kind of information I was after.

I did cough a bit when I clicked on your Gungir multibit link! A little bit out of the budget range I was initally looking at I was playing with the phone BT settings the other day and can turn it to LDAC, which was an improvement over Aptx, but on poking around in the developer settings and upping the bitrate to max quality, it certainly showed the limitations of the phone as a source! So yes, I can see now that's a non-starter and I am keen to maximise the quality, but I may have to begin at a slightly more modest starting point....

I assume you run the Virtuoso program on the Allodigi one (RPi)?

 

[Freakbro]

Have been doing a lot of reading up on all this, so thanks again for the pointers.

I've been leaning towards the Schiit Gungnir Multibit or the Chord Qutest. Though with the Schiit being out of stock and no indication of when they will be back in, that sort of scuppers that one! Plus the new HiFi dealer I've been using near me is just negotiating with the Chord rep he knows and hopefuly I'll be able to demo the Qutest in the not too distant future.

 

[Freakbro]

Sounds like you’ve been influenced by the “latest and greatest” hype.
There’s lots of talk of massive improvements in DAC technologies, and I did try a number a few years ago. Personally, I not convinced. An old but well implemented dac can still happily hold its own. For example the best digital system that I heard at the last Scalford show was front by an old Wadia transport and dac. So don’t rule out the option of an older s/h piece of kit

I don't know about 'latest and greatest', just the best I can currently get that's in my budget. I'm fairly new to this level of tinkering, so my knowledge of what previous makes/models of equipment are good is rather limited and tbh, my audiophile friend is always on at me to start on ebay etc to find stuff, but not being funny, I'm enjoying buying shiny and new, I have the money for it and am not that interested in s/h at the moment. I'm like Nobski mentioned earlier in the thread, I'll buy this tranch of gear and then I'm done for a long time. I'm only just replacing my gear now that's over 20 years old!

But I'm definitely not just buying into more money = better, I am doing as much research I can (about a subjective subject), narrow down the options and then demoing what's available and seeing what I like.

It's like cables, I appreciate that cables can and do have an effect on the sound, for instance I can hear the difference between the Van Damme and QED silver I have (The difference between copper and silver), but have always been sceptical about the differences between copper cables once they are at a certain point. So I've been demoing various cables for fun to see what differences I can make out. First up was a £30 / m Chord Shawline, and yes, immediately the mids and high were so much smoother, Dylans voice all of a sudden now sounded grainy on my Van Dammes to smooth and clear and on the Chord - but, a lot of the bass disappeared, so for me overall, I didn't like it as much. But I've just tried some Chord Epic XL at £200 / m (lol) and the difference was absolutely amazing, all the mids and highs being so smooth and now more bass than I've ever heard. In fact on trying 2049 by Hans Zimmer one speaker spat the bung out of the rear port!

 

[Freakbro]

Yes unfortunately the stock at Schiit has been poor for a while now in the UK, I think some of the wildfires in California affected their suppliers plus the usual other reasons possibly ?

The Chord Qutest looks a good DAC to audition and gets good reviews. It will be interesting to know what you think but what will you use to play through it as ultimately that will influence the output ?

For the meantime it'll probably be just the phone via USB while I figure out what the permenant solution will be. Your RPi Allo suggestion seems the most likely approach, but it's from the USA again, so issues with stock and delivery means I might look closer to home for a solution.

Oh gawd, don't get me looking at better cables @Freakbro lol !

Haha, yea that's an expensive rabbit hole to go down! I certainly won't be buying the Chord Epic XL, no matter how good it looked or sounded

 

[Freakbro]

It`s tempting though

Hah, yea....never say never eh?

Allo have world wide distributors, info on their web site, including from the UK (I will message you the details as technically might be seen as a competitor to OC as they also sell Raspberry Pi`s) who have the Allo DigiOne Signature but don`t appear to have the Usbridge Signature or the case, so depending if you have a preference you could get that otherwise there is a French audio distributor who seems to have the full range and other interesting stuff, not sure on import issues so could be worth contacting them first

Thanks for the info!

I'm going to borrow a Saturn-R CD player at the weekend from my local Hifi shop, mainly as it's a DAC in it's own right too and I can get an initial sense of what the DAC brings to the table and I can compare to the Chord when that turns up.