F1 2013 - The begining of the end

Skeeter

Skeeter

Skeeter

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So, from 2013 F1 will be using 1.6 litre turbocharged 4 cylinder engines limited to 600bhp and 10,000RPM, with some batteries and electric motors as well.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9255871.stm

Assuming it takes a little while for these rules to filter into GP2, there should still be some good racing to have there, but I think ill have to look for another series to follow in the future.

I fully understand the reasoning around bringing manufacturers in and the money this will bring with it, but it will be to the detriment of what makes F1 what it is. if the cars arent screaming past at 18,000rpm it simply wont be the same. Im also not fully convinced that loads of car manufactures will be wanting to join if the regulations are so tight that all they do is build identical engines to each other...

Time to start watching more V8 Supercars I feel...
 
Todge said:
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Its 600BHP from the engine and an additional 150BHP from KERS and such

LizardKing said:
Do the engines have to be in-line?
4 cylinder boxer engines sound quite good!
Not forgetting F1 turbo engines of days gone by were only 1.5litres and sounded immense. However its quite clear engines now have very little impact on races these days.
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It looks like engine specs will be very very very restrictive. Which effectively means every manufacturer will be making an identical engine with a different badge on it, which might actually have the oposite effect to what they are planning. Why would a load of car makers wont to join F1 if they werent allowed to compete with each other? It will go the way of the tyres and end up with a single engine supplier. This will then in turn mean a single gearbox and KERS package, and standardised packaging around the engine bay. Then they will standardise the other elements that could give an advantage, like Aero, and finally they will enter a 'rebranding excersise' and F1 will be renamed GP1...

PinkFloyd said:
If they can make them still sound good I'll be happy :) - even if the engine is just a 4pot rather than a v8.
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Unless they can make a 10,000rpm engine sound like its doing 20,000rpm, i wouldnt hold out much hope. Screaming F1 cars will be no more...
 
alexhull24 said:
Did I also read something about ground effect cars possibly making a comeback? That would reduce dirty air and allow closer racing perhaps.
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Ground Effects have been talked about for the new IndyCar series but I think they bottled it and went for the safe bet (i.e. very similar to the current car) plans for 2012 onwards.

clv101 said:
BThe future is integration of the electric drive train, it's light, efficient, high pressure, low capacity engines.
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I fully support electric motors and KERS and the like, but not in F1. KERS has the fantastic ablility to add touch of a button power, and increased range. Both of these are ideal for GT racing and Endurance racing, and are being used (see Porsche 911 GT3R Hybrid for the perfect example of how to use KERS). These series also make a lot more sence as the cars have a direct relevance to the road going cars the companies sell.

F1 has never had this, ever. Even when it was full of manufacturers it was advertising though association. No Joe Blogs could walk down the shop and buy an F1 derived component that they had seen on TV yesterday. Yes, aspects of F1 are now in our road cars, but its not like your going to see 600BHP twin turbo 1.6l engines in a Ferrari road car any time soon...

HOWEVER, this kind of thing does make sence if you encorage competition. Look at tyres. When there were a number of manufacturers is was in the companies interest to build the best F1 tyres. You didnt then go and stick the same ones on your Mondeo, but the brand was strenthend.

Trouble is, this isnt going to work this time round. The specification is so tight that everyone will produce the same engine to the same specification, and then it will be frozen for 5 years. Why would any car maker want to get involved in that? As a lot of guys on here are saying, they need to be specified as "1.6l, X mpg, go!" and let the manufacturers go for it. But the trouble is the FIA have openly stated that they dont want anyone to gain an advantage, which basically means they want everyone equal.

The result? A single spec series that tries to con us all into thinking its not because all the identical components have different car maker badges on them. And that is not F1.

And also, I bet most of the people on here who say the sound of an F1 car isnt important havent heard 24 of them screaming at 18,000 rpm through the Belgian forests. The sound is one of the reasons to go to a race rather than watch it at home. Its simply sublime.
 
CaptainRAVE said:
Surely they can develop the engine initially? Plus they always find holes in the rulebook to "address power issues".
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What? Like the current engines? lol.

They will give them all a set of blueprints to all build the same engine, they all will, then they will be frozen for 5 years, with the small exceptions allowed to tweak the best engines to slow them down so they dont have a performance advantage over the rest, and then everyone forgets about them.

The FIA have openly stated that they would like a single engine/drivetrain setup in F1 (it was one of the drivers behind the planned breakaway last year wasnt it?), but they didnt get it that time. So instead they ensured that only the teams who signed with Cosworth would be considered for new teams on the grid, giving them nearly 50% grid coverage with the same engine. But then that didnt work as the teams proved to either be a bit poo, or go off and sign deals with other companies (Lotus/Renault). So, the next tactic is to roll out this new cake that has "green" and "cost saving" icing all over it, and sprinklings of "loads of new manufacturers will join in", when in actual fact underneith is just another single engine series ploy...

Reading into this a bit more though... there are some interesting names on the "opposed to this idea" list.. including Bernie Ecclestone, who owns the rights to a certain "GP1" series name... and Ferrari and Mercedes, big players in the sport with lots of engine customers who have before supported a breakaway series...

Chances of us all sitting down in March 2013 to watch the opening race of the GP1 World Championship?
 
I think the 10,000 RPM limit probably comes from the FIA realising that, even with their rose tinted view of the world, nobody will be able to make a 1.6l Turbo engine do 18,000 RPM and last 4 race weekends...
 
Ok, but what about the fact that the new specification engine rules designed to bring in new manufacturers may actually push them all away as the engines will be so strictly specified and competition between manufacturers will not be possible?

Would you be happy to see F1 with a single engine supplier?
 
1.6l 4 pot NA would be even worse! But as the whole idea is about being 'green' they are going to have to use Turbos.

Just for comparison, IndyCar rules for 2012 onwards are proposed as an 'open engine formula' with the limits being turbo engines up to 2.4l and 6 cylinders, able to produce between 550 and 750bhp, with an additional 100bhp KERS push to pass system.

*sigh*
 
clv101 said:
I don't see how this will be any less exciting. The lap times will be similar? I don't understand how a 2.4 v8 (or 3.0 v12) is any more exciting than a 1.4 i4 turbo with KERS. In fact I'd suggest the new system will be more exciting.
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But the noise! The noise of 18,000rpm engines is something unique to F1! Its epic. Without it the whole live experience is diluted.

MeEsH BaKkA said:
That's the thing, it can't get any less exciting. Cars are too dependant on aero, the big engines are just for the exotic factor, what would you rather hear being completely wrung out a 4 cylinder or a 12 cylinder?

Personaly I think they should go back to manual shift as well, add driver error into equation again. They have ditched T/C now do the same with semi auto shift.
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Asleast they got rid of that preselected downshift stuff they had a few years back where they selected "4 downshifts" and then just jumped on the brake and the gearbox did it for them.
 

You have not lived untill you have heard that, at that track! And you have only 2 years left to do it.

My appeal against 12,000rpm engines, in 27 seconds.
 
Well these new Aero regulations are actually quite encoraging.

Ground Effects could potentially massively reduce the whole 'dirty air' problem so people will be able to follow each other closer. Big fat grippy tyres and lower Aero could make for better racing.

However...back in the late 90's or early 2000's or whenever it was they raised the front wings the FIA made bold statements that they had "reduced overall downforce by 50%", but by the end of the first season most teams had managed to claw back about 40 - 45% of that 50% loss. So within a few years cars will be back to the levels of downfoce they have now.

But, IMO, Ground Effects = :D
 
I was so disapointed that IRL chickened out and went for the safe bet for the 2012 spec cars. They could have atleast taken some inspiration from the ground effect batmobile thing. :(
 
I forgot about TC. God early 2000 cars with TC sounded dreadfull comming out of a corner! Sounded like they were running over catle grids! I can however remeber Renaults were much lighter on it, and the Jordans were the worst.

So, by previous experience, with these massive changes in 2013 it will be the team who scrap 2012 first to focus on new regulations that become champions in 2013? HRT as Constructors Champions in 2013? :)
 
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