Family run store may close after 35 years

[2013]

Family run general store / newsagents may close after 35 years.

After a few hard years my family is considering closing the store which my grandmother purchased the sin the early 80s to help support her family at that time it use to sell all the basics nearly all my familly has had a hand in running it over the years, it was took over in the 90s by my mum who would get up early hours deal with us, send us to school then run the store all day the return home after 6, we use have 2 other corner stores on the same road, one of which was dead across from us, we got along really well even if we both had the same type of store, in the mid 90s my uncle added newspapers to the store which help a little, then in the mid to late 2000s things started slowing down.

Recently things have got really bad,
We now have 6 stores on the same road, the new store across of us sells fake fags and cheap booze so that does not help.
Supermarkets do give us a good kicking a lot more then they use to, even more so now with east online shopping.
Most of the locals have left the area over the years when people from eastern Europeans started moving in we only have some family's and some old people, we always had a mix of people in the areas so that did not really stand out much at the time but most of the European dont spend much on things unless its not available in the other store and even then they try to barter, integration with the eastern Europeans has been l lot harder then any other.
being load and loitering has also been a issue
We get a lot of daily thefts so we had to get CCTV.
The daily intake would not even cover a persons wage on most days.
for some reason our tax returns are more then we make, I feel out accountant if not doing the job
due to hard time the store was remortgaged in 2010 at a stupid rate, so the monthly repayment is well above what it should be.
Then you have the normal bills which go up each year.

Even if we close the store we still have a huge mortgage to pay.

What are you thoughts ?

 

[2013]

Even if we close the store we still have a huge mortgage to pay and closed store.

 

[2013]

Even if you declare bankruptcy? Surely there is a way around this...

You do have a point ill get them to get them to get some professional advice and see what options are available.

 

[2013]

Why not try selling goods and food from Eastern Europe?

We did try a few options but they never sold and we dont want to sell fake fags or booze.

Presumably they have a house away from the store though so bankruptcy may not be the best option.

As above, maybe you need to try and diversify a little more. If the shop accross the road is busy due to selling cheap booze then maybe you should also try and sell cheap booze? The fact you've gone from 3 stores to 6 on the same road suggests the market is there.

the shop is part of a house.
and its not cheap I would class it more as fake or duty free. so I think they may not be declaring everything,

I dont know too much about all the store but here is the basics, first store, only cheap booze, fags and the basics its right at the top of the road so it also cover another area which does not have a store, store 2 has only been open for 6 months, store 3 is the one selling the fakes, store 5 is at the bottom of the road and also covers store 6 is more of a Pakistani supermarket.


You maybe right we could be doing something wrong or it could be because we are too close to use. but they others area slightly away from each other.

Whilst the sentimentality is nice n all that, as above - its a numbers game. Those other shops, like selling the knock-off ciggies are in it for the numbers game.

Times change. Sometimes the cut your losses is the better way long term.

This is what I have been saying the only reason we have not closed was because of my granddad, the loyal customers have moved away.

Turn it into a bookies

In all seriousness, I think take aways or small cafes are doing ok.

Apart from that good luck.

bookies no thanks we had a new one open a few years ago near the first show, it did not last long after getting robbed a few times.

takeaways may need some work or but a small cafes maybe if some people dont start bartering over the tea and coffee.

I take it you own the store freehold? I would look to see if you can get alternative use for different a different businesses (e.g. fast food); you can then either run the business yourself or rent it out to someone looking for that kind of premises. Or potentially look at residential conversion.

Yes we do, We have not considered anything yet but we are looking at option, we only 2 people run the store at different times one of which has a 2 year old, the rest of us have jobs so it may need to be something that does not need much staff. We have also thought about just renting out the place.

potentially look at residential conversion. the back is already residential its just the front.

My parents had an estate corner shop for over 50 years
My mum sold the premises (business was worth next to nothing) about 3 years ago following the death of my dad a couple of years earlier
They saw the same downturn as you described and in the end were earning very little from a business that had supported them more than well for most of their lives
I had advised them change the business to a pizza shop (none on the estate or very near) or separate the rear of the shop into such a business. They also rented the top floor (it was a big end terrace) to a hairdresser. i also advised them to change that to a flat to make the business more desirable to a sale but they did not.
Basically, if you are stuck with the property, be prepared to change its use and maximise the full 24hrs in the day to get the most income would be my advice

Thanks this sound a lot like us, The show front is large with a lot of large windows but its not very deap maybe the 12ft - 14ft
the back residential house part is already rented but it only covers less then half the mortgage, as for pizza or takeaway I assume it will need access to kitchen, which it does not have access to the shop only has electrics and telecom.

Surely you simply report the other store selling dodgy cigarettes to trading standards?

We have and I think they have been done in at least one but they changed the owner and started again with a few more tricks, We even get people from other areas coming for them.

 

[2013]

Not very capitalist of you ;_;.

To the OP, it's a question of becoming a niche experience (selling £50 vegan sandwiches to hipsters), cutting your loses now or eventual collapse later. (assuming rate discounts are already in use)

Or you know make the 50th kebab shop.

(selling £50 vegan sandwiches to hipsters) both options wont work in this area we dont have vegans or hipsters, most of the remaining people are quite tight when it comes to spending locally,
we have people coming in and bartering over shampoo and the other just buy online,

We have 3 barber shops, 2 takeaways, 6 shops, thats on one stretch of road.

 

[2013]

Could always have a dabble at turning it into a cafe,our local cafes do extremely well,always have 3 or 4 staff on to cope with demand.

Sounds like you are doing the right think now but making it come to a head - dont leave it as it will only get worse financially.

Turn it into a cafe??

We do have a school 2 mins down the road so something quick and easy that opens during the day may work, I was thinking a nice takeaway (pizza, healty food) chippy but that may need work, or a cafe and we dont have a chippy or cafe near us.

 

[2013]

By the sound of that then a cafe probably won't work either, although i suppose takeaways tend to do the best in poorer areas.


I know you say there's a large mortgage at a crap rate. Do you have any equity in the building or could you remortgage?

How much of a shortfall are you talking on a monthly basis?

I dont know as I dont run the business its ran by my parents but i can try and check
I assume we could re mortgage by now.

Instead of *running* the cafe though (or any business), I'd suggest getting a change of use sorted and then offering it out on the open market.

From the sounds of it, you and your family don't want to run a lifestyle business that basically pays minimum wage (or below) but there are plenty of people that do. So you just need to find someone and lease it out to them. Their rent will pay the mortgage and you can move on with your life.

You maybe right

Unless you go with a greasy spoon type cafe during the day and maybe some sort of takeaway in the evening ??- that might work in the area you are in?

I think that may not work people in the are expect the world and and pay peanuts.

 

[2013]

It is a lot better than I was expecting!

its a lot better then I was expecting too, I expected comments like

Give Mike Ashley a ring.

I’m assuming you sell neither legal fags & booze or fake?

Here lies your problem I’d suggest, I smoke and drink and when I’m off to get my supplies I’ll go somewhere I know I can get what I want locally under one roof, I’m not going to go to one shop for some dog food and another for beer & tobacco.

You mention other shops have opened, I’m guessing they sell similar lines to you plus booze & tobacco products.....

(Prior to becoming an hgv driver many moons ago my first career was in retail)

We do sell them but we dont sell the cheap fakes, we still sell some fags but not as much as we use too, also in the past people would come for fags and buy a few other things but now no thats all they will get and come back later if they need anything else.

 

[2013]

Fair enough, I’d say try diversifying into something else or try to come up with something that you offer that your competition doesn’t.

We have tried a few options but with a small coverage area and so many shops we are very limited, we have tried a few things over the years but it did not lasted long before one of the other does the same, anything too different would not sell very often so we are stuck with stock for ages and the price was also a key issue.

The only shops that does anything different is largest and they have added a butchers and household goods, the other is the one selling fakes. Maybe we could add other things but not much comes to mind.

The daily intake doesn't cover 1 persons wage.
Your getting robbed daily
The loyal customers have gone.
You let nostalgia rule your head in 2010 and took out a re mortgage when its not sounding like it was financially a good idea back then.

If you have no loyal customers and your getting robbed daily who exactly are you expecting to shop at any new business venture.

Open a turkish hairdressers, staff it 24 -7 . use it for money laundering. If you need advice about that, speak to the guys robbing you, they will have some contacts.

If your all working other jobs then surely just selling everything you can and then renting out the building is a sensible option.

Yes most days you cant even cover a wage.

The guys that rob us are normally kids or young eastern europeans.

Renting out maybe the best option

Have you tried doing some research by asking existing customers and maybe door knocking in the area?

No, we have not tried that, knocking on door would not really work IMO because most of the customer will have a hard time speaking English and the other half would rather not be disturbed TBH.

If its an option, Close the shop and put the house/shop up for sale in its entirety and move elsewhere. Unfortunately sentimentality is a great concept but wont pay the bills especially in todays cut throat society. If your parents are concerned about income then, as harsh as it sounds, they should look into getting jobs at local Asda/Sainsburys etc stacking shelves, tills etc. Shouldn't be seen as a failure but a sign of the times. To be honest, it sounds like they have had a bit of a stressful time with all the issues with the shop, they may actually be happier and more stress free.

TBO Sentimentality is the only reason the shop is still open.
The area has become below average, unless things change it will keep going down.

I think the main reason is the drastic change, number of corner shops opening up in the past few years and in the past it was a mix of families white, black, Asians and Europeans but now it mostly people from eastern Europe which would not be a case but they prefer as the shops ran by Europeans and only look at price.

sell all renaming stock. then lease it out as a barbers or hairdressers or nail salon.

retail is dead or extremely hard. if you have 6 other shops nearby on the same road it will be impossible. i'm guessing your shop has never been done up and people prefer to go to the nicer ones.

you haven't moved with the times likely. it's best you just rent it out.

it is near impossible so we are considering the option,

We did do up the shop a few years ago and the shop is in better condition than most on the road and one of the larger selections.
some people may think im being a little raciest but , IMO the Europeans in the area discriminate more then a little, they prefer to visit the shops ran buy other Europeans which is 3 of the stores and dont mind buying fakes as long as its cheap, Price is key for them. We only survive due to the things the others dont do ( sweets, frozen food, other odds)

The only shops that survive in the 21st century are:

- gambling shops (someone has mentioned bookies already)
- pawnbrokers
- charity shops
- coffee shops
- phone shops
- social vaping
- £1 / 99p stores

Become one of those.

pawnbrokers A Independent one wont last one closed down due to getting robbed and we have a ladbrokes down the road

Charity shops I dont think that will work, you wold need donations but I dont expect that to happen.

- coffee shops - Not sure it would work in the area unless its was cheap.

- phone shops Maybe but it would need knowledge and investment things move a little faster.

- social vaping - Not a chance, We have tried selling normal vape pens and other bits but we dont sell much. price again.

- £1 / 99p stores - This maybe a option but the pound lines are getting smaller and smaller, look at pound world.

most things we wont know unless we try but going by the mentality its all about price.

Buy a shaver and become a barbers or just rent your premises out to those skilled enough to do it.

I'm not sure about this, We have 3 on the same road 4th just off road a 5th one just closed a few months ago,

Going by the sudden spike of cash launderers barbers and nail bars over the past few years, I reckon this is a decent shout.

I reckon its mostly because it need the least work, ( you dont need much or any English, dont need any education, and you can learn from another barber then open your own) all the work is cash work as self employed and its all profit plus I expect a lot dont declare much.

Given the description of the neighborhood. The best option might well be to close the shop and turn the property into an HMO.

If the area really is turning into a slum where Honest businesses can no longer survive then the window for selling up at a decent price might already have passed you by and perhaps the best option is to become a slum-lord and profit by it.

(I am only half kidding. This might well be a profitable option provided you can handle the agro!)

Its nowhere near that bad that bad yet, the area is still good some. the houses are good, even some of the people are good.

if you go by paper and the outside its a good area, ( Nice houses, Good rated school and nursery, Good GP, Clean Park, Dentist, options, Barbers, corner Shops butchers,) plus some other

it's just the some people and the number of the same type of shops withing walking distance are bringing the area down, things may change in a few years but dont know how long we could survive the bad time.

 

[2013]

Don't go a cafe.
We've run a 96 cover, upmarket cafe for over 25 years. By an upmarket cafe I mean all home made/baked & table service.
If your completly small scale, as in a couple partnership who work 7 days a week & take wages, maybe slightly plus it could work, but you won't be rich, you will just be your own boss.
For us, even though we are full daily, the cost of being middle market, it's been a constant squeeze over the last 6 years with wage/rates/pension/food cost inflation.
Not being in a city & in the north, means we can't charge more than these costs are increasing.
Soon we either go self service, endlessly put prices up more than standard inflation, which has been reducing customers, or turn it into higher end dining, which turns away the core customers of a day time cafe over a restaurant(again we are not in a city but has the same wage costs)

We have other businesses, so in essence we keep it going as it is subsidised by our other enterprises, but the work involved is an ever diminishing small return for the work involved.
It will in my view, sadly be the first to go in a Corbyn government, as it will never be able to stand his labour costs, which will be a shame for our employees.

We have the same problem, the store is a in small town which is north, on the outer side of town, even the town has 25% of empty stores,

I dont know if other agree but I think the biggest problem is the government, everything else is down but they put up the cost, even if we can cover the rent and bills the business rates are stupid, then you have the normal returns.

Ever look at city center units, business rates are normally double the normal rent, then they wonder why so many towns are dead.

 

[2013]

Yeah these kind of small businesses are dead unless they happen to be in a spot with little competition and a reason for demand.

You could look at becoming a collection point for the likes of Amazon but usually they pay very little if anything and you can only hope to capitalise from the increased footfall hopefully meaning more custom...

The only way a lot of these smaller businesses are going to survive really is where they can setup a discrete concession within a larger business (shop in shop).

I'd echo what a lot of people have said above you'd be best renting the space out to someone who can run one of the types of shop that are still making an income unless you can find some way to diversify or another unique selling point.

We already do Collect plus but like you said pay is very little and the customers picking up never buy anything.

Not many options we have not tried.

I cant say for sure but I dont think the others are not all legit or by the book so they are profitable.

I think we will think on some ideas consider if anything will work but it mostly split the store and rent unless someone want to take the complete store.

 

[2013]

I don't understand why the mortgage is such an issue. You remortgaged in 2010 so it's likely you have equity. If you haven't got any equity in 9 years then something has gone badly badly wrong. Sell up and move on.

I have friends who own some property in less salubrious areas they are making a bomb with HMOs where the area is high in migrant workers. Not really my thing but if you want to make money and don't have the ingenuity in retail then it's an option.

I had a similar conversation a couple of years ago with somebody who's family was from Bangladesh. He was bemoaning the Eastern Europeans who had come over and undercut his family store and it was facing closure. On the flip side I have school friends whos Sikh father ran a store, saw the writing on the wall for small shops, and used the profits so that all his children trained as professionals. He's now comfortably retired and the children take care of themselves. Same scenario, different outcome.

Times change, sounds like your family need a good long honest look at how viable your business is and bite the bullet.

To tell you the truth I dont think my parents have checked to see if it has any equity I only recently found out how bad it was, I dont even really know too much about the issue other then the basics and what I have seen as you can see but they have been more focused on the shop to get it running better like you said they did not want to admit the problem.

I think its the sentimentality and attachment to the store that had my parents and grand farther refusing to give up, but now they dont have much choice they need to see if they can make anything of it or give up and try something else.

 

[2013]

Might not just be sentimentality they might somehow think they are letting your grand father down, etc. if they give up on it. (Well that is kind of still sentimentality but not just out of some kind of nostalgia, etc.).

Im thinking of work at the shop on one of my days off to get the best idea of things, see it running and see whats possible if anything,

in the likely case nothing can be done we will just need to closes and move on.

 

[2013]

What are the other stores doing that you aren't?

Nothing other then the ones that sell the fake fags and booze, they only do the very basics.

The only one that does anything different is the one with butchers.

Ever thought about picking up a franchise, Londis, Spar, One Stop, Budgens...?

Yes but I dont think think we would make any money, it would just be a extra cost for a name that does nothing.

Adapt. Do what everyone else is doing but better.

Yes Im thinking of spending some time working and learning as much as possible about the store to see what can be done.
This will help me see if anything can be done.

Still doesn't help the council rates are insane.

They seam to be the only one doing well.

 

[2013]

Have you actually entertained the idea though? Seems like you have just written it off as a bad idea...?

Maybe worth speaking to these types of people to see what they can do for you

Certain models will invest in your store to implement tried and tested ways of working, surely worth a shot, right?

Yes we did in the past, we had look at a few, one of the main problem was you could only by stock from them and the cost was above average, so any savings we could get by shopping around would be lost and the prices was more than standard.

The 2nd was you had to buy everything from them even the over priced crap no one ever buys and new items.

We buy from some suppliers at the moment if they push anything new, they give you discount to try and if it does not sell before the sell by date they take it back later, we wont be able to do that.

Other then that you also have some other fees, for the brand, support, refit to come in line with the design they use , but like you said its worth a shot checking again.






We all know most people do at least one weekly at the supermarket and not much you cant get anymore.

So I would like to ask what do you buy at your local shop.why and do you spend much.


from the times I did help out at the shop I find most customer will only buy the basics that go out of date like milk bread, things you cant wait for cost the same or less locally cigarettes, drinks, ice pops, crisps, chocolates, sweets, salt, or liquid, washing powder.
this is what we survive on .

even then customers will only buy what they need nothing else, in the past some would come buy milk they would buy a few other things at the same time even if they just came for milk, cigarettes, a drink ect now thats not the case.

 

[2013]

FYI - My family rent out shops. Majority of my friends own several shops.

They seem to favour keystore up here but have you tried going down the franchise route? They will usually do up your store for free but you need to pay for fridges and shelving, etc. You then need to buy the majority of your stock through them. They usually deliver, etc so you don't need a van unless you plan on picking up deals from elsewhere on the side.

I'd like to see some pictures of the shop tbh. People think their shop is amazing but I could whatsapp you some of my mates stores to show you what a successful store looks like inside. Turning out £2K+ profit per week.

You keep on saying cheap fags and booze and tbh in a scheme price is king. You are dearer than the competition. If you can't compete on price then you need to compete on quality. But I would try to compete on price in a scheme tbh if your customers don't care about quality.

Make sure your milk, fags, booze, rolls, you know the daily stuff is cheaper than the competition.

If they are doing illegal fags and booze then report them.

You need to compete on price and plaster those prices in HUGE posters in your windows.

Start selling morning rolls; roll and bacon, roll and sausage. As long as you don't have a fryer it's all good. A fryer requires proper licensing, etc I believe and proper ventilation and ducting installed. So you won't pass regulations without spending a fortune. So you can't do chips unfortunately unless you have that in place but if it's already there then do chips. Try and use lard instead of oil as the taste is what pulls punters/kids in.

Fags is a big thing in scheme shops as is booze. The reason why your competition is doing so well is because they are cheaper in those 2 very important departments.

Well to be honest I think it would be best for them to rent it out the space, my parents are not young (50/60) we only let them carry on because they wanted to still do it, my sister was taking it over shes never helping if she does its a short time, so unless she plus her finger out it of no use keeping it running.

We have thought about the franchise route, in the past but we did not find it justifiable, The cost of refit shop front, revamping, the new equipment fridge, freezer ect) plus being limited to just them would, some even had a fee.

The only one that would be making money would be the franchise.


Ill send you some photos when I get a chance to visit, you can send me some if you want.
Also I must assume the store making 25k a week must be in a larger city in the south with not many stores in a walking distance, am I correct ?
I think our location is a big factor.

I dont think I said cheap booze and fags if I did I meant fake or un-taxed booze and fags.


Milk, bread we get daily but you cant get them cheaper they have been a standard price for ages, fags and booze we cant do cheaper if they they sell fakes.

They have been reported a number of times nothing much happens.

(You need to compete on price and plaster those prices in HUGE posters in your windows.) This is a key thing I missed, dont have huge signs and something are not priced, which I have been considering may help.


I have been thinking about warm foods, we even considered selling fries, it could work because we sell sandwiches and they do well.

You could also try the signing up as a DPD / Myhermes etc drop off point

We already offer Collect plus, it does nothing for us.most people just get the parcel and leave

 

[2013]

Rent it out. Get someone to sign a long lease 24/25 years and your sorted. Rent review every 3 years.

Just as an example one of ours is £75k for a 25 year lease then £25k per year rent.

Sitting on your bum in the house collecting £500 a week for doing nothing.

All repairs need to be done by the leaseholders and it has to be handed back in a fit state.

This is scheme shops. Where people don't have cars or many large shops nearby within walking distance. In and around Glasgow. Some a 30 minute drive from the city centre so not huge towns.

I think we will need to have a realistic talk and see what my parents want to and what can can be done but this maybe the best option less of a headache.


Yeah thats the problem, we have shop withing 1 mins walking distance from each other and most people also have cars, we are also in a small town in yorkshire and the spending is not great.