Fastest CPU that can be passively (or virtually passively) cooled

[Alexrose1uk]

It would not surprise me if the HD6410D IGP is better for media use than a GT220.

Purely due to experience I'd say it'd probably be swings and roundabouts. On the box/face of it the ATI is better, HD Audio for a start, the downside is that I've experienced some occasional errors when using ATI hardware decoding, artifacts, blocking and the like, which weren't present when thrown at Nvidia's equivalent. Might be down to a bad driver batch, bug in the software at the time or whatever; or even perhaps an issue that has been dealt with since the 5-series decoding ASIC, but my experiences with Nvidia, although not 100%, have been slightly better for HTPC applications.

As I've stated before elsewhere, originally I'd planned to stick a cheaper 5450 in my HTPC first time round, but because of the above I ended up going for the more expensive Nvidia passive card. It's swings and roundabout and I've not tried a 6 series GPU to see if that performs any better, but for the sake of taking the relatively hassle free option, I went Nvidia, I'd rather not buy a card and end up selling it to replace a month or two down the line, it's just more hassle.

This being said, I'm probably going to swap the GT220 forward to a GT430 at some point in the future once I've got a bit of cash and found a not excessively priced passive varient (Zotac Zone for example). Unfortunately the GT520 has a few flaws which prevent it from being a suitable replacement, and the GT530 with a little more grunt, hopefully enough to avoid the afforementioned issues with the 520 (as lack of shaders etc was Nvidia's argument to the cause), is more or less OEM only.

If I was planning to use the IGP, I'd be more tempted to take a serious look at Llano, but as I'm not, my money's likely to go on raw CPU performance, which seems to pretty much be a win for the I3-2100/2120, except in heavily threaded scenarios. I could be wrong here but I read the i3 ran slightly cooler than the Llano too, especially if the IGP on the I3 wasn't in use; and as I want to get away with virtually silent cooling, thats a point to the i3 for me.


Edit: not that I hate tinkering or new tech, as this whole upgrade has grown out of a need to add an extra HDD and LAN card, the want for a little more power for the future to deal with things like Hi10, and a family member looking for a cheapy upgrade haha
All combined to make a pretty convenient excuse to upgrade this month or next

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Purely due to experience I'd say it'd probably be swings and roundabouts. On the box/face of it the ATI is better, HD Audio for a start, the downside is that I've experienced some occasional errors when using ATI hardware decoding, artifacts, blocking and the like, which weren't present when thrown at Nvidia's equivalent. Might be down to a bad driver batch, bug in the software at the time or whatever; or even perhaps an issue that has been dealt with since the 5-series decoding ASIC, but my experiences with Nvidia, although not 100%, have been slightly better for HTPC applications.

As I've stated before elsewhere, originally I'd planned to stick a cheaper 5450 in my HTPC first time round, but because of the above I ended up going for the more expensive Nvidia passive card. It's swings and roundabout and I've not tried a 6 series GPU to see if that performs any better, but for the sake of taking the relatively hassle free option, I went Nvidia, I'd rather not buy a card and end up selling it to replace a month or two down the line, it's just more hassle.

This being said, I'm probably going to swap the GT220 forward to a GT430 at some point in the future once I've got a bit of cash and found a not excessively priced passive varient (Zotac Zone for example). Unfortunately the GT520 has a few flaws which prevent it from being a suitable replacement, and the GT530 with a little more grunt, hopefully enough to avoid the afforementioned issues with the 520 (as lack of shaders etc was Nvidia's argument to the cause), is more or less OEM only.

If I was planning to use the IGP, I'd be more tempted to take a serious look at Llano, but as I'm not, my money's likely to go on raw CPU performance, which seems to pretty much be a win for the I3-2100/2120, except in heavily threaded scenarios. I could be wrong here but I read the i3 ran slightly cooler than the Llano too, especially if the IGP on the I3 wasn't in use; and as I want to get away with virtually silent cooling, thats a point to the i3 for me.

The thing is this a media PC or a main one?? For a media PC you really don't need a powerful CPU. Any 2GHZ+ dual core from the last two years will have be much faster than a 3200+ CPU . If this is a main box the most powerful 65W CPUs are the Core i5 2500S and Core i7 2600S. If 65W is too high,there is the 45W Core i5 2500T. The best 35W CPU is the Core i5 2390T dual core.

I have a Core i3 2100 myself in a relatively cramped modified Shuttle. Even with the stock cooler temperatures are not that bad but are around 60C to 65C when the CPU is stressed.

I might get one of the more powerful CPUs at some point as the Core i3 2100 is not brilliant for media encoding(my mildy overclocked Q6600 is faster).

The 65W A8-3800 consumes less power than the I3 2105 at idle and during media playback. The CPU at full tilt consumes around 6W than the Core i3 2105. If the GPU is at full tilt power consumption is higher but then the GPU is twice as fast so it is not surprising.

However,in most cases at normal usage power consumption is far lower.

This OcUK forum member has a 100W A8-3850:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=19879345&postcount=13

They power the entire system off a 150W PicoPSU. The whole system consumes 110W when playing games and around 70W with normal use(I suspect these are readings off the socket).

The 65W A8-3800 is rated at a 35% lower TDP. This means it will be well under 100W which is quite decent IMHO.

Since it does have a much bigger die than a Core i3 it will run cooler like many AMD CPUs which are rated for quite low temperatures. Temperature is a dependent on both the watts dissipated and die area.

If you are going for an Intel based setup I would get a 35W Pentium G620T and use the rest of the budget to get the decode card you want.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

The i3 is going into the media PC, the old x2 5200+ I was running the HTPC with is going off to the family member to be used as thier main box (they are the ones who have a 3200+, and need an upgrade, but are quite tight on cash).

Part of the reason I want the extra power is to keep things running fluently once there is more hi10 material out there (which can't be GPU/hardware offloaded, and thus must be decoded in CPU), plus a decent percentage of the material viewed by me and a few others on the machine has subbing, some of which is more advanced and can push CPU usage up, even with the GPU offloading at current. The Big Shuriken is meant to be better than the tiny cooler that comes with the i3, so heat shouldnt be an issue as I'm running in a full sized case, rather than a relatively cramped shuttle.

There's also the simple fact that the HTPC is also my backup system, I've found myself wanting before in this regards, and upgrading the HTPC will ensure it will be up to the task in the case of having to put it to use as such.

I use my main rig for encoding and the likes; so that's out the hands of the HTPC, which simply needs to run fast, cool and quiet, with reasonable overhead to account for the future, at the moment it doesn't have this.

Judging by Anandtech's review, the i3-2100/2120 (also 65w TDP) chips will be better overall with this in mind, as although the idle is very slightly lower with the A8, the load/use power consumption is a fair chunk lower with the i3. The i3 additionally seems to perform stronger than the A8 when it can't leverage all 4 cores well against a task.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review/9

As they conclude themselves:
"If gaming isn't something you're going to be doing then you're better off with Sandy Bridge. And at that point there's no need to spring for the Core i3-2105, the standard 2100 will do just fine."

The i3-2120 doesnt cost very much more, doesn't run much hotter or thirstily, has a little more oomph under the cover and should be even closer to the a3800 even under multithreaded tasks, and a clear winner in single threaded performance.

As the CPU performance, and not the IGP performance is the decider for me, that's what has swayed me to the i3.

I discounted the i5s as they're hotter, more power hungry and more expensive, and whilst faster, it indeed would be overkill, especially as the additional demands would work against me in the heat/noise departments. The i3 does seem like the best compromise for what I need/want. The i3-2100t is theoretically even better, but a few of the reviews I read seem to indicate that the heat/power reduction isn't anywhere as high as the TDP reduction (65w-->35w) would indicate, especially considering part of the difference is the slower IGP, which is going to be running disabled regardless of which chip I went for.

 

[Jokester]

I currently run my media PC on Zacate, handles everything I through at it media wise with exception of iPlayer HD.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The i3 is going into the media PC, the old x2 5200+ I was running the HTPC with is going off to the family member to be used as thier main box (they are the ones who have a 3200+, and need an upgrade, but are quite tight on cash).

Part of the reason I want the extra power is to keep things running fluently once there is more hi10 material out there (which can't be GPU/hardware offloaded, and thus must be decoded in CPU), plus a decent percentage of the material viewed by me and a few others on the machine has subbing, some of which is more advanced and can push CPU usage up, even with the GPU offloading at current. The Big Shuriken is meant to be better than the tiny cooler that comes with the i3, so heat shouldnt be an issue as I'm running in a full sized case, rather than a relatively cramped shuttle.

There's also the simple fact that the HTPC is also my backup system, I've found myself wanting before in this regards, and upgrading the HTPC will ensure it will be up to the task in the case of having to put it to use as such.

I use my main rig for encoding and the likes; so that's out the hands of the HTPC, which simply needs to run fast, cool and quiet, with reasonable overhead to account for the future, at the moment it doesn't have this.

Judging by Anandtech's review, the i3-2100/2120 (also 65w TDP) chips will be better overall with this in mind, as although the idle is very slightly lower with the A8, the load/use power consumption is a fair chunk lower with the i3. The i3 additionally seems to perform stronger than the A8 when it can't leverage all 4 cores well against a task.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4476/amd-a83850-review/9

As they conclude themselves:
"If gaming isn't something you're going to be doing then you're better off with Sandy Bridge. And at that point there's no need to spring for the Core i3-2105, the standard 2100 will do just fine."

The i3-2120 doesnt cost very much more, doesn't run much hotter or thirstily, has a little more oomph under the cover and should be even closer to the a3800 even under multithreaded tasks, and a clear winner in single threaded performance.

As the CPU performance, and not the IGP performance is the decider for me, that's what has swayed me.

Again,if multi-threaded performance is not important then a standard dual core will suffice though. Now you are changing from a Core i3 2100 to a Core i3 2120 BUT DO WHAT?? First you want a better card and then say you can't afford it ATM and then you are spending the money on a CPU which is off no real use for a playback rig.

At that rate you might as well get a Core i5 2300 for around £130 and undervolt it. It will last you much longer than a Core i3 which I actually use myself and have good first hand experience of its performance.

The 35W 2.2GHZ G620T has similar performance to a E6750 or E6850. The 65W 2.6GHZ G620 is around E8400 level performance. A 2.8GHZ G840 or 2.9GHZ G850 is virtually the same performance as a Core i3 2100 in lightly threaded applications. The only difference between the G600 and G800 series is the clockspeed of the CPU and GPU. Any of these CPUs and indeed any modern AMD dual core is much more powerful than an X2 5200+ due to IPC improvements.

If the media decoding is being offloaded onto the CPU 100% a Core i3 2120 is not going to help you any more than any of the Pentium dual cores. The Pentium dual cores have exactly the same cores but with HT switched off.

They are not slow at all.

If your anime subs are having issues running on CPUs which are as powerful as E8000 dual cores then I suspect the vast majority of people watching them will probably avoid them. Most laptops will have lower single core performance than many of the desktop Pentiums for example. In fact most people I know who would watch that stuff use a laptop any way.

If multi-threaded performance is important even an old Core2 quad at around 2.6GHZ to 3GHZ is faster than a Core i3 2100 in many cases. I know because I have both systems to compare plus I can compare performance to friends systems too(a mixture of newer Core2 quads,Core2 Duos and Phenom II CPUs).

In that case something like a 45W Core i5 2500T is the best choice. It is not far off a Core i3 2100 in single core performance but has much higher multi-threaded performance.

I discounted the i5s as they're hotter, more power hungry and more expensive, and whilst faster, it indeed would be overkill, especially as the additional demands would work against me in the heat/noise departments. The i3 does seem like the best compromise for what I need/want. The i3-2100t is theoretically even better, but a few of the reviews I read seem to indicate that the heat/power reduction isn't anywhere as high as the TDP reduction (65w-->35w) would indicate, especially considering part of the difference is the slower IGP, which is going to be running disabled regardless of which chip I went for.

Not the Core i5 2500s,Core i5 2500T or Core i7 2600S which consume similar or even less power than even a Core i3 2100. I mentioned these before as per your thread title. Regarding the undervolted Core i5 I doubt it would run that hotter under light usage. With faster cores and a bigger die it probably won't run hotter anyway at stock. It is less likely to be taxed as much and more likely to stay in lower power states. However,even the Core i3 2100 is OTT and just a waste of money for what you are using.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Edit: Bleh, spent some time trying to work out how to explain, and then it logged me out

The difference between the i3-2100/2120 is all of ~£5, I've been keeping them both in mind since the beginning; power consumption and heat generation is almost identical, so for the purpose of this thread, they may as well be one and the same.

I have already stated the point of the upgrade is for a faster underlying system to give more headroom, for media use (when unable to decode via the GPU, simultaneously to dealing with advanced subs), future additional tasks I may decide to roll onto the machine, and to enable the system to function as a backup system; whilst simultaneously trying to seek the best compromise between performance, heat, and power consumption and (probably without needing to say) cost; I want to run the system (almost) silently.

I am aware none of these chips are slow and that IPC has improved, however, like I say in the very name of the title, I'm after the fastest chip/best compromise with the above goals in mind - as the saying goes, you may as well go the whole yard/if you're going to do something, you may as well do it well.

The current i3 range seem to be the best chips for this goal, although I've also been considering the Pentium chips as well, however the i3 should last a little longer overall (like you say, they're the same chips but with HT, and a slightly higher clock speed). The i5 would last longer again, but is hotter, more costly, and uses more power, bearing in mind I do not want to change the case, I am slightly more limited in terms of coolers, so I have to bear this in mind.

I do indeed mention upgrading the GT220, the point is not that I can't afford the upgrade, but that I can't afford to do it all at once, the core system upgrade (and thus being able to my offer my family member an upgrade as well) is a higher priority to me than upgrading the card to offer HD codec bitstream and a slightly faster decoder/processing chip, bearing in mind this'd eventually become redundant anyway.

I will have to do a bit more reading on the i5 2500t etc as I'll admit I discounted the entire i5 line early on when I was reading through reviews.


Please be aware even if I may not seem it, I'm glad for the discussion as it does help me think through this properly and weigh my opinions against others haha

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Out of interest why don't you ditch the GT220 at the same time??? It will give the system you are selling decent media playback ability especially with flash decoding.

You could get a G620T or a G840 for around £60 and a Gainward GT430 passively cooled card for around £50.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Just the additional cost of doing it at once, and the fact I haven't got another home for the GT220 right now I'd guess. It's kinda backburner, nice to do but not really much of a priority for me, I've ummed and ahh'd about it a few times

I've also yet to see a GT430 with passive cooling for less than £60-65 outside of eBay at any of the stores I trust haha (which I'm not going to name as I'd probably accidentally earn a forum vacation )

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Just the additional cost of doing it at once, and the fact I haven't got another home for the GT220 right now I'd guess. It's kinda backburner, nice to do but not really much of a priority for me, I've ummed and ahh'd about it a few times

I thought you were selling the existing system?? What card are you including as only newer cards support flash decoding.

I've also yet to see a GT430 with passive cooling for less than £60-65 outside of eBay at any of the stores I trust haha (which I'm not going to name as I'd probably accidentally earn a forum vacation )

It is a well known company. Look harder!!

 

[Alexrose1uk]

I wasn't selling the entire system, just the old Mobo, Ram, CPU cooler and CPU , the core components so to speak. My aunt's system currently has a 3650 in it which is more than enough for the amount of gaming/sort of games played on it, it's the CPU etc that's holding the general performance back (well that and perhaps the older HDD but baby steps as her budget is extremely tight haha)

I was planning to carry over my GT220 to the new build for now, along with the case, case fans, PSU, SSD and storage drives, it's just the mobo, cooler, CPU and RAM I was changing. The 430 would be nice, but its cost at once I could do without, especially as I'm not even settled on the processor yet

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

AFAIK,the HD3650 does not support flash decoding.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

If she's struggling, I've got a number of GPU's I can send her way
Got a spare 4850 sitting on the shelf boxed up for example haha, I think she's and a few other family members have had more free upgrades than I can count because of this sort of thing hehe

Edit: hmmmm, found that passive 430. Haven't used those guys for a *loooong time* after they messed me about on a case; pretty sure they've changed owners since! Only bit that worries me is ordered on request, which typically means we don't have any but think we know someone who does haha

 

[mmj_uk]

You could get a G620T or a G840 for around £60 and a Gainward GT430 passively cooled card for around £50.

This is very good advice imo.

Unless you specifically want Quicksync or an embedded GPU then i3's are overkill for HTPC, hyperthreading isn't really needed and as mentioned you can get a decent NVidia GPU with the money you save from dropping down to a Pentium. You'll lose about 400mhz but the Pentium's are about four times faster than AMD's Zacate CPU-wise so not exactly going to be lacking when couple with a dedicated GPU.

 

[imb4tman]

Sorry to hijack but I thought it would be better than start a new thread. Would a SB i5 2400 be okay under a Thermalright HR-02?

 

[Alexrose1uk]

This is very good advice imo.

Yes, it is, it's weighing up whether the extra cost is worth the extra power for future flexibility (bearing in mind it's secondary use is as a backup PC, and PCs tend to stick around this household quite some time in one fashion or another, still using an old P4 barebone system as a server/torrent box for example), the Pentium chips are my second choices (never thought I'd say that again haha) after the i3 The fact I've now seen an (admittedly to order, not in stock) passive GT430 also makes things more interesting.
On the face of immediate tasks the Pentium should be more than enough, just trying to work out whether the extra cost is worthwhile for future use; plus the Pentiums are very close in power consumption to the 35W TDP processors, which is a boon.

If I was to go for a Pentium it'd almost certainly be a G840, rather than 50, as the 850 seem a little too close in price to the i3, and out of the other two, the 840 seems to provide the best performance per £.

 

[Alexrose1uk]

Haha, cost to performance argument solved.
Managed to pick up a i3-2100 brand new boxed on the MM for £75. Close enough to the Pentium 840/50 I don't feel like I've spent too much, but oomph is there if I need/want it.

Leaves me a bit more cash to put towards the GT 430