Fiat Coupe 20VT
- Thread starter MikeHiow
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Soldato
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I looked at buying one of these a while back, and was put off because although they are very cheap to buy, you'll probably need that budget again to keep it running. The number of PH ads i saw with 'just spent 4k to get her mint' or 'spent over 6k in the last year to get her up to scratch'.
The biggest problem is the manifold which is very prone to cracking - make sure you look for one which has been welded. Turbos going pop are the other issue which can be costly so look for smoking from the exhaust.
There's a good buyers guide on the coupe owners club - have a google. TBH, for the budget you're looking at, I'd avoid.
The biggest problem is the manifold which is very prone to cracking - make sure you look for one which has been welded. Turbos going pop are the other issue which can be costly so look for smoking from the exhaust.
There's a good buyers guide on the coupe owners club - have a google. TBH, for the budget you're looking at, I'd avoid.
The exhaust manifolds crack as mentioned, almost every 20VT will suffer from this at some stage. Some have been through several manifolds. It's not a big performance problem, but sounds pretty horrible when the engine is cold (the crack tends to seal up when the manifold gets up to working temperature). New manifolds are available (£240+vat) but cracked ones last well if properly welded (i.e. not MIGed!).
Turbos can fail, just as they can with every other turbocharged car. The Coupe is nothing special here, if it's been looked after with regular oil changes, driven gently when cold and allowed to cool down after a thrash before switching the engine off there is no reason for them to fail prematurely. Re-conditioned turbos are available from around £300, and they aren't that bad a job to fit.
People will like to frighten you about the cam belt, suggesting that the engine has to be removed to change it, which is complete rubbish. It is however, very, very tight against the inner wing, so the engine mounts have to be removed on one side and the engine shifted around. This is labour intensive, so belt changes aren't especially cheap if you don't fancy DIYing it (and you need the camshaft locking tools). IIRC the specialists charge around £350-£400 for the job. I did it in my driveway for just over £110 including the locking tools, but YMMV. It's very important the auxiliary belts are changed at the correct interval, if they snap it's very possible for them to get wrapped around the back of the crank pulley (poor design IMO), and cause timing belt failure.
Front wishbones are very much consumable items, the torque of the 20VT and the weight of the engine give them a hard time. Fortunately the parts are pretty reasonably priced (~£40 each for OEM items, as low as £15 for pattern parts but they don't last as long). On the subject of suspension, the rear radius arm bearings can wear at high mileages, you'd need to jack up the car to feel any slop in the bearings, but if the car is showing noticeable negative camber at the rear then they are probably worn. Repair kits available at around £25 a side.
I would suggest you avoid cars that have had the boost increased over standard. Many people put in a generic chip upgrade (GTEC1 or GTEC2) and a PRV to stabilise the boost control and then never bother getting the fuelling checked. Many engines have died like this (including mine before I owned it). If it's running stock boost (~1 Bar) and has a PRV fitted, this isn't such a bad thing as the stock electronic boost control can be a bit ropey.
Oil pressure is a continual concern to 20VT owners for some reason, they get paranoid about it. As long as the engine will hold more than about 1.5 bar at idle with the engine fully hot, there shouldn't be a problem and the pressure should hit 3 bar (end of the gauage) if you increase the RPM to 2000 or so. Note that some of the engines tend to use rather a lot of oil, and almost every week there is a tale of woe on the forum after someone has killed another engine by letting the oil drop too far.
Other possible engine related faults are pretty much the same as other marques, e.g. Mass air meter faults, the occasional coil pack fault, stuck thermostats, rotting radiators etc. Engine mounts are a favourite on high mileage examples, listen for any clunking pulling away or when changing gear (though this can also be caused by loose wishbone mountings).
The big Brembo brakes at the front have a healthy appetite for disks and pads if you use the cars performance regularly, and some pads have a tendancy to squeal quite badly. Shims are available to fix this, and the disks and pads are used on several other cars so they are not stupidly expensive.
Headlamps are crap as standard, the dipped beams use projectors with standard halogen bulbs, so the amount of light that actually makes it out of the lens is pitiful. Upgraded halogens help, but a HID conversion is the way to go for half decent lights. Main beam is fine with just upgraded halogens IME.
If you are interested, get yourself signed up to the club forum.
Turbos can fail, just as they can with every other turbocharged car. The Coupe is nothing special here, if it's been looked after with regular oil changes, driven gently when cold and allowed to cool down after a thrash before switching the engine off there is no reason for them to fail prematurely. Re-conditioned turbos are available from around £300, and they aren't that bad a job to fit.
People will like to frighten you about the cam belt, suggesting that the engine has to be removed to change it, which is complete rubbish. It is however, very, very tight against the inner wing, so the engine mounts have to be removed on one side and the engine shifted around. This is labour intensive, so belt changes aren't especially cheap if you don't fancy DIYing it (and you need the camshaft locking tools). IIRC the specialists charge around £350-£400 for the job. I did it in my driveway for just over £110 including the locking tools, but YMMV. It's very important the auxiliary belts are changed at the correct interval, if they snap it's very possible for them to get wrapped around the back of the crank pulley (poor design IMO), and cause timing belt failure.
Front wishbones are very much consumable items, the torque of the 20VT and the weight of the engine give them a hard time. Fortunately the parts are pretty reasonably priced (~£40 each for OEM items, as low as £15 for pattern parts but they don't last as long). On the subject of suspension, the rear radius arm bearings can wear at high mileages, you'd need to jack up the car to feel any slop in the bearings, but if the car is showing noticeable negative camber at the rear then they are probably worn. Repair kits available at around £25 a side.
I would suggest you avoid cars that have had the boost increased over standard. Many people put in a generic chip upgrade (GTEC1 or GTEC2) and a PRV to stabilise the boost control and then never bother getting the fuelling checked. Many engines have died like this (including mine before I owned it). If it's running stock boost (~1 Bar) and has a PRV fitted, this isn't such a bad thing as the stock electronic boost control can be a bit ropey.
Oil pressure is a continual concern to 20VT owners for some reason, they get paranoid about it. As long as the engine will hold more than about 1.5 bar at idle with the engine fully hot, there shouldn't be a problem and the pressure should hit 3 bar (end of the gauage) if you increase the RPM to 2000 or so. Note that some of the engines tend to use rather a lot of oil, and almost every week there is a tale of woe on the forum after someone has killed another engine by letting the oil drop too far.
Other possible engine related faults are pretty much the same as other marques, e.g. Mass air meter faults, the occasional coil pack fault, stuck thermostats, rotting radiators etc. Engine mounts are a favourite on high mileage examples, listen for any clunking pulling away or when changing gear (though this can also be caused by loose wishbone mountings).
The big Brembo brakes at the front have a healthy appetite for disks and pads if you use the cars performance regularly, and some pads have a tendancy to squeal quite badly. Shims are available to fix this, and the disks and pads are used on several other cars so they are not stupidly expensive.
Headlamps are crap as standard, the dipped beams use projectors with standard halogen bulbs, so the amount of light that actually makes it out of the lens is pitiful. Upgraded halogens help, but a HID conversion is the way to go for half decent lights. Main beam is fine with just upgraded halogens IME.
If you are interested, get yourself signed up to the club forum.
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And as with most old sayings, it's not entirely true. If you have the ability and resources to work on the car yourself, then running costs aren't bad at all.
Manifolds are a design flaw, you can buy expensive tubular ones which won't ever crack but tbh welding it up every few years is fine (I'll be having mine done soon for £160).
Turbo's wear out, but don't they all - can go anywhere from 70k to 130k miles, totally depends on how it's been driven and serviced (i.e. oil). It'll be expensive if it does, so check for any hint of blue smoke in the exhaust and make sure it's had every service on time. Some engines will use oil too so having a top up bottle in the boot is a sign that he's not a muppet.
Only look at modified cars if you know it's history and are understand what's been done to it - if it's got a boost guage on I'd walk away, if it's had a decat I'd walk away, even after market breathing mods can be deadly.
If it's done around 70k wishbones may need doing, again only a couple hundred max, but bear in mind.
Biggest jobs you may walk into are cambelt and turbo, belts can be done for under £500, turbo's (re-con unit) for about £600 - if you do either of these though you know it's god for the rest of the time you own the car at least.
Check for a recommended garage near you on fccuk.org, if you can get to basildon essex or birmingham use either motor-mech.co.uk or www.poweritalia.co.uk, they deal with 20VT's every day so you'll find their parts are cheap and the labour too (as they'll do jobs quicker than most).
Edit: more recommended garages: http://91.151.214.146/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168875#Post168875
Turbo's wear out, but don't they all - can go anywhere from 70k to 130k miles, totally depends on how it's been driven and serviced (i.e. oil). It'll be expensive if it does, so check for any hint of blue smoke in the exhaust and make sure it's had every service on time. Some engines will use oil too so having a top up bottle in the boot is a sign that he's not a muppet.
Only look at modified cars if you know it's history and are understand what's been done to it - if it's got a boost guage on I'd walk away, if it's had a decat I'd walk away, even after market breathing mods can be deadly.
If it's done around 70k wishbones may need doing, again only a couple hundred max, but bear in mind.
Biggest jobs you may walk into are cambelt and turbo, belts can be done for under £500, turbo's (re-con unit) for about £600 - if you do either of these though you know it's god for the rest of the time you own the car at least.
Check for a recommended garage near you on fccuk.org, if you can get to basildon essex or birmingham use either motor-mech.co.uk or www.poweritalia.co.uk, they deal with 20VT's every day so you'll find their parts are cheap and the labour too (as they'll do jobs quicker than most).
Edit: more recommended garages: http://91.151.214.146/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168875#Post168875
Soldato
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The manifold was altered on the later examples. And you can make the same modification yourself.
Look out for modifications regarding the turbo, the electronic boost control can be troublesome.
Look out for modifications regarding the turbo, the electronic boost control can be troublesome.
Oddly enough I found the opposite. It was hardly any more for me to insure the 20VT than my Civic VTi. Then again I am a relatively old git
Associate
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- 28 Oct 2008
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Pinin_prestatyn here from the fccuk forum. Viva le coupe
That's probably because a lot of tools buy them and wrap them round trees, seeing as a shoddy example can be picked up for about 10p.
Thanks for the replies, it was more of a passing thought rather than "I have to have one of these", You mention stay clear of any cars running over standard boost, is there not a safe level it can be raised? Or just not worth it? What fails when boost is upped, just a case of fueling not keeping up and DET, or what?
Yes it's perfectly possible to raise the boost by 0.1-0.2 Bar safely, provided the fuelling is checked afterwards. The majority of people don't do this however.
The other thing is that a car with raised boost may point to an owner that's driven the car hard, not a problem if it's been cared for but something to watch out for on cheaper cars.
Have you driven a 20VT yet?
The other thing is that a car with raised boost may point to an owner that's driven the car hard, not a problem if it's been cared for but something to watch out for on cheaper cars.
Have you driven a 20VT yet?
I've not, no.
Bloody good fun IMO, much more of a turbo rush than you get in say, a stock 200SX
You need to. For all their faults (perceived or real), they are addictive to drive.
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Oh yes!
" This thing accelerates like you wouldn't believe. There's a cultured snarl as you gun it, the turbo spools up hastily and you're pinned in place, grinning like the g-force has sucked your cheeks to the seat" - Classic cars October 2005
They also said it felt like the quickest in the test, which included a DB7, Elise and scooby! They really are top fun, and the sound is just like the ** Quattro. I miss my coupe
" This thing accelerates like you wouldn't believe. There's a cultured snarl as you gun it, the turbo spools up hastily and you're pinned in place, grinning like the g-force has sucked your cheeks to the seat" - Classic cars October 2005
They also said it felt like the quickest in the test, which included a DB7, Elise and scooby! They really are top fun, and the sound is just like the ** Quattro. I miss my coupe
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I've no idea why U_R has been picked up by the filter though