Final Spec

[tcody]

None at all, they use the same mounting holes. You just put the blanking plate back in afterwards.

If you have a look at a photo of the case, there is space behind the psu. Quite a lot of it. Cables can be put back there. it is actually 15cm deep, amazing just how small it is. There's probably a build log somewhere of the x500 but google didn't immediately provide one for me.
Look to the left of the psu mounting bracket, lots of space

My case is the akasa omega, I'll see if I can find a picture

Ahhh i did look at the omega as an option, OcUK doesn't do it and I fell for the Lian Li anyway! Nice though!
Wont most of the cables go between the side panel and the motherboard anyway?
Thats amazing about that extra hdd... saved me my last reservation on getting the Lian Li, so thanks!

Edit: What do you use bitumen for? Thought it was similar to tar?

 

[tcody]

out of interstest what 3d programs you using,reason i ask if its maya or 3dsmax the software is not very good with ati cards and will crash and do all sorts of un-normal things? i found out the hard way and cannot use my 4850 with it so had to invest in a nice new gtx285 whic autodesk kindly said would be the best card to have before stepping up to the fx range of nvida,anything with cuda and open gl cards are recommened for 3d appliction.

Ahhhh serious? Yes I use both, well use 3D Studio on PC.. Maya on Mac....
Is this issue not resolved for 4890? seems best value....
Ahhh.... not cool

Edit: Other than rendering, does the GPU even play a part in 3D Studio? Heard it was processor based....

 

[tcody]

sorry but ati cards are not supported with autodesk dont get me wrong you can use them but will cause you to have major problems with crashing and if using maya 2009 like i do the grid will vanish and go black and allsort better of with a nvida card if poss,people do use them still but i read so many post on autodesk about it it's unreal sorry to bring the news but i thought i would mention it,one of the reasons they dont like ati is do to the open gl ect which maya and 3dsmax use

I bought it from here about a year ago, they don't stock it anymore unfortunately. Lovely case. I've put a solid side panel on it as water means cooling isn't so difficult. A lot of cables can be fed behind the motherboard with most cases, helps considerably with cable management.

Thats quite an extreme method for silencing! Interested to know if it works!

The bitumen is indeed very like tar. The shiny part is a foil coating. Its main feature is density, I'm using it to mass load the sides of the case. Makes the case quieter, build log coming soon.

The 8800gt you can see in one of those has been flashed to a fx3700. If Rick would be good enough to run the specviewperf benchmark I would really love to know how the 285 compares to my modded 8800gt in 3D work. Mine will clearly lose in games, but I tend to do cad work more than play games.

Thats quite an extreme method of silencing! Interested to see how well it works!

Im stumped now... Was about 10 minutes away from being ready to order... The 4890 is 160GBP... Can't stretch for a 285 nor 275.... I dont think... unless scrap the SSD... Bad times..

 

[tcody]

Legend mate, I'd really appreciate that. Here's the link http://www.spec.org/gwpg/downloadindex.html they want you to fill out a small questionaire, but thats reasonable given the effort they put into the benchmark. Its quite fun to run as it draws wonderful things on your screen, I'm happy talking you through it. Sad to say that the download is fairly large.

Rick's done quite lot of research into this, I'm inclined to trust him on it. Drop down to 260 if need be, its still a very, very nice card. This is a i7 rig isn't it?

Sli means two nvidia cards, crossfire means two ati cards. Not worth it unless you're fairly obsessed with games, but your board will do either if you choose to later

Thanks, guess I could go for a 285 and drop the 128 SSD for a 64.... Which 285 do you recommend? Unless the Asus one is any good? somehow much cheaper than the other 285's, could still attempt to get 128gb SSD...

You keep editing! heh.. You seem to be manic about sound.. I find speakers help
Does watercooling help much, thinking future (way future)..

 

[tcody]

Decided the best thing may be to drop the wd black for now... get the Asus 285 (cheap as discontinued - great deal therefore). I will then use my external WD my book hard drive as an internal (1TB 16mb cache, 480mbps... too crap? its for data as you pointed out before).. get to keep my 128 g skill in that scenario..

I dont understand how you an flash a card to make it rival better cards... Not exactly sure if thats what you're saying though!

 

[tcody]

Okay Jon, it's just you and me in this thread (if you're still here of course).. I've decided just to stretch my budget (justified it against buying a new mac)... to get the 285 and the 128gb GSkill...
So can you check this spec please

+ 160GBP 128GB G.Skill SSD

 

[tcody]

This makes sense actually. The my book will have a WD green sata drive inside, you can break the casing off it and you'll be left with an internal drive. I did this with my 500gb one when I needed another hard drive. You can use it through usb if need be, but this will be far slower than through sata.

The 8800gt is the same hardware as the fx3700, the only difference is the bios. So in that case, you can edit the bios to match the workstation card. Similarly the 280gtx is very similar to the fx5800, issue there is that the workstation card has more ram. This might make bios modding impossible, it'll certainly make it harder. Well worth a shot given the relative prices of the two cards. It all hinges around drivers, for the same hardware quadro drivers vastly improve performance in cad. Flashing the card is mainly a means of getting the quadro drivers to work with it. Performance improved a lot, thread is here if you're curious http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17995195

But yeah, Id probably turn the current external drive into an internal one. Running off my old 500gb my book now come to think about it. Performance is worse than a black drive, but for data its irrelevent

Ok, based on that spec, almost all looks good. What're you doing with case fans? I suspect the lian li comes with a load of fairly high quality ones. Does this mean you're putting two fans on the TRUE? If so, you'll want a Y fan splitter. Adding the second fan is good for a couple of degrees most times, I'd be inclined to only use one fan pushing based on the internal structure of the case. Will also save you 18 quid.

Further things you can do. Lapping the true will get you anything up to 5 degrees or so. Its fairly time consuming but well worth doing, it took quite a lot of effort for me to beat my lapped true with water.
You don't need to mount the ssd in one of the drive bays. Ive got mine attached to the back of my motherboard tray, as it doesn't get hot or vibrate you can put it anywhere. There were spare holes in the tray, so I put a screw through one of them into the mounting hole on the drive

Well you appear to be a genius.. Again you've given me room for another hdd! Yeah will definitely mount that somewhere else then!
Okay so your suggestion is to scrap a fan and "lap" the true... bear with me whilst I google what that is!

 

[tcody]

Seems risky? Not entirely sure what it achieves.. but have found a guide to doing it... How does this reduce the temperature so much? And wouldn't another fan further add to the cooling?

 

[tcody]

Good man, that's a far better response than just asking what lapping is

I used scythe s-flex on my true, adding a second got me one degree under load and none when idle. I think this is because I had an exhaust fan already lined up with the cooler, so with the second fan there was barely a centimeter between the two. Essentially the same as with your case.

Lapping a true will take you a while. Start on coarse grit, probably 240. You'll mainly find advice on processors, similar idea with heatsinks. Rub back and forth until you see copper all over, rotate 90 degrees and use finer paper until scratches look gone, rotate 90 and use finer again. Repeat. Remember that the aim is to have it flat, not just shiny.
It'll take a while. Probably 2 or 3 hours. I lapped it on a machine and it took about half an hour, but I was fortunate enough to have one available.

Reason it helps is that making the base flatter increases the area in contact with the processor. As a side effect you get rid of the nickel layer which also helps slightly. Doing it to the processor is considered risky as it voids warranty, and people occasionally return processors under warranty. I can't think of any reason why you might want to return a large chunk of metal under warranty, so the risk is rather less

you do it to the actual processor ....
That's surely risky.... Not sure what the back of the processor looks like... But can't you zap it in the process? Break it?
And why don't CPU cooler companies supply them flat / copper plated?
I've seen the evidence everywhere for the much better temp readings... but not sure its worth the risk of messing up...

On another note, I see what you mean about second fan, guessing my case will be very tight as it is and that second fan wont make much of a difference...

 

[tcody]

the Corsair S128 SSD it self if fast on access times

are you going to be messing with big files or not {ok most likely big from your other posts} (the samsung or falcon/vertex are a lot faster on the data rate front but under norm day to day use your not likely see much improvement unless your messing with 5gb files often)

but if you can afford to get the samsung second gen or falcon/vertex SSD drive you not be let down any way (well the samsung will not anyway)

with the programs you are using more data rate is most likely better any way

Aye getting a 128gb SSD G Skill Falcon... With the option to get another in Raid later... think its for the best... Can't believe I've put up with this macbook for so long, letting it slowly crunch through 3d studio in bootcamp... crazy

 

[tcody]

most likely payed the same amount for it for the Mac, your about to Buy and its going to be like 10x faster then it

i got an mac here Right now driving me mad as it refuse to boot from USB pen to put 10.5 back on (dvd DL disks do not work for some reason and it only comes on 1 DL dvd now not 2) any one in the warrington area got an OSX 10.5 disk i can lend or tell me how to do an Network install

True, this is the 2.2 ghz core 2 duo, cost 1000 at the time... This machine is ATLEAST gonna be 10x better and will be 10x faster than a 1000 macbook now... I just want something that will last, and is upgradeable... two things apple dont supply...
Thats a major pain about your install disc.. If i were you i'd download it.. comfortable in the fact that you own it (no moral issues to do with copyright).. dunno if you can dl the two disc version though..

 

[tcody]

Depends what normal day to day use is. Not everyone games. Part of the joy of computers is the options available, everyone has a slightly different idea of what is best and most ideas can be realized without your own machining lab.

I lapped my e8400, it allowed nice running temperatures at 3.6ghz in a matx case with sod all airflow and a 7 quid cpu cooler. Well worth it. Back of the processor is a thin layer of nickel then about 3mm of copper. Yeah, you could damage it. Sanding with water/oil would be a good way to start with that. Static discharge/temperatures could also be a problem. If you're patient it's fine. Heatsinks on the other hand, couldn't care less about temperatures or static. Can't hurt them

They're nickel plated as this is more inert than copper I believe. Copper is attacked by fingerprints, which isn't that desirable in a processor. Not everyone takes care never to touch the surface after all. It's also more convenient to stamp id numbers into nickel.
Several waterblocks come with lapped copper bases, but they're aimed at a different market to air heatsinks.

You might find that the extra fan actually hurts temperatures, air cooling is strange like that

Network installation is fairly advanced. I know the basics to it, but as I haven't done it myself I'm not going to try to talk you through it. Google will steer you better I'm afraid. I'd personally track down an external dvd drive and install from that. Alternatively, an internal dvd drive with a sata to usb adapter taken from an external hard drive enclosure works just as well.

If I was only willing to attempt it on the CPU cooler what temp decrease could i expect... not even half of doing both right? Its a tricky one, will give it thought whilst it gets delivered...
So what do i need? Oil, Sandpaper (different degrees) and saw on a guide a glass slab...
So both the processor and cpu cooler have nickel plating and copper underneath? Sanding doesnt produce static does it? How confidently did you do your CPU?
Tempting....

 

[tcody]

Ive learnt quite a lot from you jon, so thanks very much.. Guessing OCuK don't supply a lapping kit.. not that its needed. I'll just get some wet and dry from local store and handy piece of glass (have worked with copper and wet and dry before at uni so shouldnt be too much of an issue)..
Am gonna post my final final spec, so if you can just look over it once more would be appreciated... Hope you pop by my build log too, as you're very helpful!

 

[tcody]

+128gb G Skill Falcon SSD - 160GBP

All good?

 

[tcody]

Cheers again, will order it now, so shall be starting it on Tuesday I guess.. keep an eye out

 

[tcody]

+128gb G Skill Falcon SSD - 160GBP should be far more then that ? (£280)

Youre right.. wishful thinking, was quoting 64gb... 272 GBP ... damn

 

[tcody]

lol was thinking then

mac is bugging me going to Load the DMG onto an apple partition now and see if let me Pick it as an boot source

A lot of people do boot from image, I wonder why its not working out for you.. Wish I could help but I've always had the CD so never needed to boot from image...

Card keeps getting declined :/ Annoying... Shall be calling OcUK tomorrow

 

[tcody]

hi all back from night shift if you can call it that.im glad i helped out with the gfx card and im glad you joined me in buying the gtx285,whens your delivery date mines tuesday knowing my luck it will be afternoon.

john i download that bench mark program later after some shut eye,might even do it for my 4850 just out of curosity.gets some pics up of your build tcody i like to see builds in progress here's my one http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=17927553&highlight=username_rick+fowler

Nice build, just had a look! You did that suprisingly quickly without help, dreading what I'm going to be like tomorrow, surrounded by things that I'm told plug into each other Will be grander scale of tetris... Where if I dont get a full line each row, it wont work... brilliant!

to bad about card not accepting

i got the OS x to load in the end so to not make it long this is what i did to make it work ( http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=328221 )

That's actually quite a simple solution! Glad you got it done.. Would be nice to do a network install without a server...

Just ordered everything from OCuK.. Except SSD and RAM, which will also be coming tomorrow from a competitor (with stock)...
Also two Intuos 3 A3 tablets will be coming I've spent too much..

So look out for my build log tomorrow... My lack of knowledge may amuse you!
Cheers for your help guys

 

[tcody]

cool are you going to do pics as you go along for it helped me out as i put the gfx card in the wrong slot and someone mentioned it if in doubt mate stop what you doing and post a pic with the problem,im sure i be around anyway as my email just came in saying my gtx 285 and assus 22" monitor is on its way and be here tommorow who's gonna get there's first i say you or me lol.

Ha, not a betting man, but mine has to make it all the way to London.. So we shall see.. we shall see...
Yeah I saw in your build log, had it in the half speed slot.. Def the type of thing I'd overlook for months.. so yeah will take a heap of photos.

Luckily OcUK seem to be handling my order fine, but the competitor came back to me and said they wont ship to me in London.. highly annoying... So just put another order with another competitor... and they're checking (Business card, shipping to alternative address)... Wish OcUK just stocked the two other things I need....
Worst comes to worst, it gets shipped to wolverhampton and then forwarded to here... Would prefer it to all arrive tomorrow though, of course...

 

[tcody]

have you tried ringing ocuk and see if they can get it you worth a thought unless you tried this already

I did my order over the phone, they don't stock the G Skill Falcon and they are out of stock on the RAM though could choose another module happily... The competitor has both, but is annoying me...
It's now the waiting game, hoping they don't take too long finding out (apparently have to wait for the finance dept to check account)... which is apparently a lengthy process...
Before coming here I heard OcUK had poor service, but decided to find out for myself... I have been extremely pleased as one phone call sorted out the issue (put the wrong expiry date in) whereas compared to these highly regarded competitors, they can't even process an order over the phone without a resultant waiting time... Should be instant.... Then a reassuring email to let you know the bank has signed off on it...
Little bit annoyed.. Hope it works out anyway

Edit: In regard to OcUK... We'll see about their delivery before I give them all the praise! Sure it'll go smoothly..