Finding out salary / package before interview

Participant · 1 Jun 2018 at 17:16

Hi

I'm applying for an external role, which on the face of it sounds good in terms of challenges of the job and proximity to home, but doesn't reference anything about the package.

They want me to apply by submitting details, CV, and a cover letter, as well as do online tests over the weekend, all with absolutely no information about the package.

There's no way I'm spending five hours of my weekend doing the above to find out at interview that the salary is half my current.

Why do employers waste everyone's time by not divulging this? I can see two main reasons:

- Providing a range automatically makes everyone ask for the top of the range, then risks upsetting them when they don't get it
- The old fashioned and almost amusing-in-a-cute-way view that everyone should be intrinsically motivated

I've emailed back saying I want to respect their time, so are they able to share indicative information about the package on offer. This is before I've even applied, which seems odd but then it also seems odd to want to waste people's time.

What are people's thoughts? Is it inappropriate to ask this before even applying, on the basis that they'd have referenced it in the job advert if they wanted to share pre-interview?

Diddums · 1 Jun 2018 at 17:27

Ask them. In my experience a company recruiting like that is either for top dog roles, or they're going to see how cheap they can get you.

Sounds a bit fishy though to be honest. Is it a verified profile?

Participant · 1 Jun 2018 at 19:19

Diddums said:
Ask them. In my experience a company recruiting like that is either for top dog roles, or they're going to see how cheap they can get you.

Have already asked them per op. I guess they're just being cagey because they don't want to give away their position. It could save them £ks by not divulging the salary they're prepared to pay for a given role.

Diddums said:
Sounds a bit fishy though to be honest. Is it a verified profile?

It's legit. A trusted ex-colleague now works there in HR and has checked the job spec and referred me to try and cash in, despite the direct approach.

Anyway I'll see what they respond with. 'Bugger off, come and talk to us' probably.

the_r_sole · 1 Jun 2018 at 20:47

surely the package will be based on your experience and fit for the job which they'll only know after interviewing you/seeing test scores?

Housey · 1 Jun 2018 at 21:19

Any company that is unwilling to share a pay range I would not pursue, even if I had to lead that discussion by telling them what my entry point for further discussion is. Most companies will follow a process but companies who genuinely seek to entice the best people from the best companies, many claim they do but don't, have to be more open and willing to engage in a conversation even before you get to a first interview. I have spent hours on the phone with companies over the years scoping out roles before I/they decide we want to move to an interview but I am probably at a different stage in my career.

I would not interview these days without them knowing what my number is and them confirming this is possible. In the last 3 months I have had many approaches of which only 1 was at a level I would consider but all were told up front what my expectations were. It is nothing to be ashamed of, take the lead, ask the question and if you are someone they are keen to attract they need to get attracting. If you are one of many and they want a line up then that's a different discussion and comes down to different criteria but I have no idea what you do or the type of roles you are looking for.

To your point, why put hours of effort in if the end point is 'sorry we can't afford that'.

Semple · 1 Jun 2018 at 21:39

Agreeing with all of the above, any company that's not willing to divulge this information just isn't worth wasting your time.

If they're stonewalling you, you could always try the other way around, albeit a little blunt, and say my salary is around £X so i'm looking for a competitive package, is this something that can definitely be offered.

SpeedFreak · 1 Jun 2018 at 21:45

I think Housey has it right, personally if I were to move roles and companies I have a clear figure in my head. If this is an impossibility for the new employer then you need to know this before investing time and effort into their recruitment process, so you are doing the right thing.

Housey · 1 Jun 2018 at 21:47

Semple said:
Agreeing with all of the above, any company that's not willing to divulge this information just isn't worth wasting your time.

If they're stonewalling you, you could always try the other way around, albeit a little blunt, and say my salary is around £X so i'm looking for a competitive package, is this something that can definitely be offered.

Indeed.

NEVER undersell yourself unless you are desperate and even then try not to show you are desperate. Act as if....

peterwalkley · 1 Jun 2018 at 22:04

There is ALWAYS a salary range they are looking to offer, so any excuse to not tell you is at best a haggling position and at worst an outright lie.

peterwalkley · 1 Jun 2018 at 22:05

Double post. Stupid hotel internet.

crinkleshoes · 1 Jun 2018 at 22:08

Potentially not wanting to annoy other employees in a similar role who are underpaid

If that's their game... you don't want to work with them.

It might not be though - ask about the package... it's a fair question.

aowc02 · 2 Jun 2018 at 13:00

i find glassdoor helps. search for the company, you will find general employee opinions about the company, how employees are treated, employees views on other staff and management - and some even disclose salary information,

Participant · 4 Jun 2018 at 13:34

Just had a sensible and efficient phone call with their HR department in which they clarified their and my salary expectations. Easy and very reasonable in the end! Refreshing.

randomshenans · 4 Jun 2018 at 14:40

Yea, it's funny how it can be so easy when it's just an open conversation. Otherwise, as people have said, I just wouldn't have bothered. If they can't tell me at least a range, I won't bother. I have previously in the early career days in IT and you then find out it's a ridiculous salary and you've wasted your time. No thanks.

Housey · 4 Jun 2018 at 15:23

Participant said:
Just had a sensible and efficient phone call with their HR department in which they clarified their and my salary expectations. Easy and very reasonable in the end! Refreshing.

It usually is but most people just blindly follow a paper process and turn up at a first interview, no differentiation etc. If the HR department is unwilling to have a first line conversation before your first interview, you have to question if it's a company you want to work for.

Never be afraid to ask about how much they will pay for the right person, it's a reasonable question and you should expect clear guidance. Again if you don't get it I would question taking the discussion further.

dowie · 5 Jun 2018 at 02:12

You'll tend to find that if you contacted via a recruiter then you'll often be asked about your current package/expectations pretty early on in the conversation.

I guess if you're applying direct then you're in the position where you can ask them, and you have done and they've given you a range, that seems fair to me. The obvious reason why they might not stick a range on the advert itself has been posted above by crinkleshoes, employees will have been recruited at various stages and will have been given incremental rises etc.. the market rates for the role they're recruiting for might well differ to what they currently pay some people currently doing that role. (there are also all sorts of issues sometimes with people making an internal move and various HR policies re: how much you can get in % terms for a pay rise following an internal move)

For companies that are reluctant to share any information about salary/overall comp etc.. until you give them a figure first they're partly just taking advantage of what they see as their stronger position in the negotiation and often it will work for them. There are however legitimate reasons for not initially giving a range at before interview, while they can of course tell you if you're way outside their range, they might well be open to a range of skills/experience for the position and able to adjust the package accordingly (of course your current pay might well be used by head hunters initially to try and gage your level but it isn't necessarily a good measure).