Finished writing a new song, 'A Game of Cards'. Please listen and comment.

TommoUK · 2 Sep 2006 at 00:08

Here it is:

A Game of Cards

Slaved over the recording for the last 2 days, but finished now. I've posted some stuff here before and can again if people like, but I just want some comments on this here song. Let me know what you think

Thanks!

Tommy

dragonflyy · 2 Sep 2006 at 09:28

Your link doesn't work..

snow patrol · 2 Sep 2006 at 10:23

that guitar effect is horrid.

Dr.EM · 2 Sep 2006 at 10:39

Yeah, it sounds like you've done two guitar takes and panned each hard left and right? I would reduce the panning effect (snow patrol, listening on headphones?). The vocals, have you used any EQ? It sounds as if you may have overly EQ'ed to bring out the mids, or the mic your using has a very limited bandwidth. What mic is it, sounds like it could be one of those cheaper dynamic models? Unless the restricted bandwidth is on purpose? I'd make the sound more full/broad myself, don't mind that restricted sound for portions of a track, but not the entire track.

I quite like the guitar work otherwise, some good hooks and an interesting chord progression. The track would benefit from bass and drums, but I understand this was recorded at home and that would be difficult.

cleanbluesky · 2 Sep 2006 at 10:45

Let me be blunt...

At the fast bit in the beginning, the bass and guitar are out of synch.

Singing becomes increasingly atonal.

Other than that the guitar has some cute moments, and the guitar sound is quite large and effective.

Personally I would treat this as a "learning" track, as it sounds a lot like the sort of music I used to write when I start songwriting. Look at the structure and compare it to existing music. Compare it to accessible music, even if its in a genre you dont like... for example, "No Tomorrow" by Orson, which has an excellent song structure even if you dont like Orson.

TommoUK · 2 Sep 2006 at 12:09

Thanks for all for comments.

Dr. EM:

The guitar is hard panned Left/Right, I'll try reducing the pan to see how it sounds.

The mic is a SM58, but I may have been a bit excessive with the EQ. I'll tone it down and see how it sounds. I always find bass hard to record and so used a keyboard for it this time, but I might try and record it with a real bass if I can find a good way to record it. As for the drums, anyone have any advice? I can't find much an alternative to using MIDI at the moment, although I'm sure there are much better VST instruments than the tacky one I'm using. I know Drums from Hell is meant to be good but it's a bit pricey... does anyone have any low-cost suggestions?

cleanbluesky:

I hear what you mean about the bass/guitar sync, you're right

My singing is my weakest area in my opinion, in a way this is all practice to make it better! After I've written a few more songs I plan on going through what I've done and trying to improve it some.

Thanks about the guitar

Never listened to Orson, but I'll check it out. I tried to follow a pretty conventional structure, with 2 verses, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus. Could it be that the song is maybe a bit too long to be accessible? My brother was saying something to that effect.

Anyway, thanks. It's better to hear constructive criticism than just complements, I have friends and family for that! :cool:

I'll try and take on board what's been said and use it to improve on future songs. Like you said cleanbluesky, this is 'learning' for me in a way as I'm still very much a novice to this. I've only been playing the guitar a few years and have hardly any experience with the other instruments in the track.

Any more comments?

cleanbluesky · 2 Sep 2006 at 12:55

TommoUK said:
Never listened to Orson, but I'll check it out. I tried to follow a pretty conventional structure, with 2 verses, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus. Could it be that the song is maybe a bit too long to be accessible? My brother was saying something to that effect.

...

Any more comments?

It's not merely about structure as in verse, chrous etc... they also have to gel together, a song is like a story because it needs to lead somewhere and then peak. The verse sets the scene, the bridge leads to the chorus, which is the conclusion. Also, the conclusion has to be the catchiest part.

For your next song...

1) Write a easy song. Use a versue, bridge, chorus and make sure they all sound like they should follow on from each other...

2) Do not concentrate on the guitar parts. When people listen to your songs, there are many things that they will notice before your guitar playing and in order to impress them with your guitar playing EVERYTHING else needs to be in place first. The less 'impressive' guitar work you do on the next song, the better. Concerntrate on songcraft. The guitar exists only as a bkacground for the singing.

3) Sing it over and over again until you think you have got it in tune. This will be frustrating, but will teach you an incredible amount, and might also avoid the "back to the drawingboard" feeling if you dont feel you have got the song right and have to move onto something else...

TommoUK · 2 Sep 2006 at 13:23

cleanbluesky said:
1) Write a easy song. Use a versue, bridge, chorus and make sure they all sound like they should follow on from each other...

2) Do not concentrate on the guitar parts. When people listen to your songs, there are many things that they will notice before your guitar playing and in order to impress them with your guitar playing EVERYTHING else needs to be in place first. The less 'impressive' guitar work you do on the next song, the better. Concerntrate on songcraft. The guitar exists only as a bkacground for the singing.

3) Sing it over and over again until you think you have got it in tune. This will be frustrating, but will teach you an incredible amount, and might also avoid the "back to the drawingboard" feeling if you dont feel you have got the song right and have to move onto something else...

I think the reason the vocals don't sound too in-tune is that I didn't give much thought to them, or a melody. I just tried to sing the lyrics I'd written to the tune of the chords I'd written already... perhaps if I write a more interesting melody for the vocals it'll sound more interesting?

Thanks.

Neoni · 2 Sep 2006 at 13:46

The Sounds all over the place, you dont know whether to concentrate on the guitar or bass. sorry mate but needs some mixing and some serious EQ alteration.

i think the guitar and bass could be easier on the ears.a different effect maybe. its all to sharp aswell try and spread things out a little try and get the track to flow. its all to in your face imho.

Good Attempt though.

@ Clean Blue Sky.

The bass and guitar out of sync are you sure? there not TIGHT. but there certainly not out of sync. theres a few mili seconds out before/after but thats about it.

cleanbluesky · 2 Sep 2006 at 14:18

TommoUK said:
I think the reason the vocals don't sound too in-tune is that I didn't give much thought to them, or a melody. I just tried to sing the lyrics I'd written to the tune of the chords I'd written already... perhaps if I write a more interesting melody for the vocals it'll sound more interesting?

Thanks.

It doesn't need to be more 'interesting', all that has to happen is remember that the vocal are the 'star of the show' when writing the song. Everything else supports the vocals, and if they aren't supporting the vocals then it has little place in a basic song.

sist_si · 2 Sep 2006 at 14:28

This is my opinion for what its worth

The sound quality is pretty bad...even for a home recording. Perhaps invest in some better mic's? It all sounds very synthetic....not natural at all.
Also, the vocals are very bad. They're monotone and it's closer to talking than singing tbh....plus they seem to follow everything the guitar is doing. You don't have to keep everything using the same ryhthms, melody and notes etc...experiment a little!

Plus..WHY follow conventional song structure!? Why have any preconceptions about how it should be structured anyway. For me, that's one of the main things that is wrong with music (especially pop music) these days.

Sorry if I've not used the right 'tech' musical terms to describe my points. I'm very experienced at song writing and have had plenty of studio recording experience but I'm not into the tech side as much.

At the end of the day though, it's just my opinion and if you're just doing this to have fun, who are any of us to say you are doing it 'wrong'. You should have heard some of the 1st songs the band i play in put together...oh dear oh dear!

TommoUK · 2 Sep 2006 at 14:42

Okay, thanks folks.

I think in my next song I'll try and go back to basics, and like has been suggested concentrate on the vocals and make sure it's got a nice melody. And maybe make the guitar a bit less harsh sounding.

I appreciate all the comments, at the end of the day I'm just trying to improve and get better at this, so it's all useful.